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How did you as a Christian come to the understanding . . .
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Originally posted by Chrawnus View PostThat's what
- She
Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
- Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)
I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
- Stephen R. Donaldson
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Originally posted by Chrawnus View PostThis is what WLC has to say in a Q&A that touches upon the issue:
That's what
- She
Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
- Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)
I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
- Stephen R. Donaldson
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Originally posted by Chrawnus View PostOriginally posted by 37818 View PostThe Father, the Son of God and the Holy Spirit are the One LORD God, ". . . The LORD our God is one LORD: . . ." -- Deuteronomy 6:4. ". . . I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour. . . ." -- Isaiah 43:11.
This link addresses some of the issues:Originally posted by 37818 View PostHere is a link to a PDF: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...soz_LDdneMWDrA
And none of this should not be at issue either.. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
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Originally posted by 37818 View PostVery simply, while they are three different Persons they are One True God without division without parts. Deuteronomy 6:4. And both the Father and the Son are the one and the same Savior not two. Neither of these things should be at issue.
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Originally posted by Chrawnus View PostI agree. But my worry is that if someone denies the eternal generation of the Son the step to concluding that there are three distinct Gods (since the Son and the Holy Spirit would then logically have to be the source of Their own godhood and existence) is far too close for comfort. I.e how can the Father, Son and Holy Spirit be a Trinity if they all have their source of existence in themselves, rather than one of them being the source of existence for the rest of the Persons in the Trinity?. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
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Originally posted by 37818 View PostGod whose very Hebrew Name means Self-Existent. The three Persons, God the Father, the Son of God and the Holy Spirit are the One Self-Existent. And there is none else (Isaiah 44:6 etc.)
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Originally posted by Chrawnus View PostI agree that the Bible teaches that there are three Persons in one God, and that there are no other Gods. What I'm saying is if you deny the doctrine of the Eternal Generation you have to explain how this does not make each Person in the Trinity the source of Their own existence and godhood, and therefore distinct Gods. Perhaps there is a valid explanation, I just haven't seen one yet.. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
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Originally posted by 37818 View PostThe whole purpose of this thread is to present the Bibical basis for the concept of the eternal generation of the Son of God by the Father. The very fact of God being the Father carries the connotation of the Son being the one begotten from God (John 5:18). Now I have always held to the concept of the eternal Sonship. And it would have be understood that "begotten" in that sense is not to be understood in a temporal way.
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Jesus is the Word (John 1), so he is eternally generated in that way being from eternity in the bosom of the Father. Once we say things and the sound goes out our words often get distorted as we lose control over them. Jesus is the living active word of God so He keeps sure what God has said. Where we distort and degrade what God has spoken (the creation and words of wisdom), He is faithful, mends and restores. Psalm 19 is about the works and words of God and imo v.4 is about the incarnation.
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Originally posted by Abigail View PostJesus is the Word (John 1), so he is eternally generated in that way being from eternity in the bosom of the Father. Once we say things and the sound goes out our words often get distorted as we lose control over them. Jesus is the living active word of God so He keeps sure what God has said. Where we distort and degrade what God has spoken (the creation and words of wisdom), He is faithful, mends and restores. Psalm 19 is about the works and words of God and imo v.4 is about the incarnation.. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
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Originally posted by 37818 View PostA side question: How do you get Christ's (John 1;14) incarnation from natural revelation (". . . So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word[ρήματος] of God. But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world. . . ." -- Romans 10:17-18. ". . . Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun, . . ." -- Psalm 19:4)? Please explain, thanks.
I think God reveals what they should expect.
Boris Maslov in Pindar and the Emergence of Literature writes: "Nature's ability to perceive divine presence in Alcaeus, as recounted by Himerius, is an example of what might be called the sponte sua imagery usually associated in Classical sources with the mythical Golden Age. The presence of the god creates an aura which transforms and often animates the surrounding space [...] I propose to distinguish epidemia from epiphany, at least on two counts. First epiphany designates visual, often momentary, appearance of a deity to an individual or a group, who in Archaic sources tend to react with apprehension; by contrast epidemia refers to a gods lengthy stay, often tacit but always socially significant and beneficient. It does not bring with it the trauma of being confronted with the larger-than-life presence of a divinity or the suspicion that the god may be active in disguise"
So there we can see that the appearance of Christ to Paul happened in a way which resonated with Gentile understandings of deity and the appearings of deity. I think Christ's earthly sojourn would also resonate with their understanding of a deity being active. Paul in his speech before Agrippa (Acts 26) says the Jews should not be surprised that someone rose from the dead as their own prophets fortold this.
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Originally posted by Abigail View PostHere is my take on it
I think God reveals what they should expect.
Boris Maslov in Pindar and the Emergence of Literature writes: "Nature's ability to perceive divine presence in Alcaeus, as recounted by Himerius, is an example of what might be called the sponte sua imagery usually associated in Classical sources with the mythical Golden Age. The presence of the god creates an aura which transforms and often animates the surrounding space [...] I propose to distinguish epidemia from epiphany, at least on two counts. First epiphany designates visual, often momentary, appearance of a deity to an individual or a group, who in Archaic sources tend to react with apprehension; by contrast epidemia refers to a gods lengthy stay, often tacit but always socially significant and beneficient. It does not bring with it the trauma of being confronted with the larger-than-life presence of a divinity or the suspicion that the god may be active in disguise"
Whoops missed out a pertinent word when typing in this quote, here it is again with missed word added and emboldened
Boris Maslov in Pindar and the Emergence of Literature writes: "Nature's ability to perceive divine presence in Alcaeus, as recounted by Himerius, is an example of what might be called the sponte sua imagery usually associated in Classical sources with the mythical Golden Age. The presence of the god creates an aura which transforms and often animates the surrounding space [...] I propose to distinguish epidemia from epiphany, at least on two counts. First epiphany designates visual, often momentary, appearance of a deity to an individual or a group, who in Archaic sources tend to react with apprehension; by contrast epidemia refers to a gods lengthy stay, often tacit but always socially significant and beneficient. It does not bring with it the trauma of being confronted with the larger-than-life physical presence of a divinity or the suspicion that the god may be active in disguise"
Here is a link to google book extract
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...maslov&f=false
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