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Thread: Are there any true libertarians in here? I would like to debate you.

  1. #21
    tWebber Darth Xena's Avatar
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    Truthseeker - I wasn't a libertarian anarchist when I was here before and thought the idea was (well I don't know if I am allowed to say this word) bat guano crazy.

    I don't care if a state can be shown to make the world better (which by itself is a utilitarian argument which I reject) - I can make my life better right now by all kinds of rights-violating things.

    I hold to Nozickian side constraints and thus rights are absolute boundaries to any potential solutions.

  2. #22
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    all I can say is if Truthseeker is for Libertarianism, then I am agin' it!


  3. #23
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    all I can say is if Truthseeker is for Libertarianism, then I am agin' it!

    That is queer. I am for the Golden Rule, therefore Sparko is agin' it! TWeb--phew!
    The greater number of laws . . . , the more thieves . . . there will be. ---- Lao-Tzu

    [T]he truth I’m after and the truth never harmed anyone. What harms us is to persist in self-deceit and ignorance -— Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

  4. #24
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Xena View Post
    I don't care if a state can be shown to make the world better (which by itself is a utilitarian argument which I reject) - I can make my life better right now by all kinds of rights-violating things.

    I hold to Nozickian side constraints and thus rights are absolute boundaries to any potential solutions.
    Actually, it is a challenge to statists to show why we should think their preferred kind of state would do more good than bad. So far nobody has risen to it. Sparko, for one.

    If the State makes a mistake or does more bad than good, how would we know?
    The greater number of laws . . . , the more thieves . . . there will be. ---- Lao-Tzu

    [T]he truth I’m after and the truth never harmed anyone. What harms us is to persist in self-deceit and ignorance -— Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

  5. #25
    tWebber
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    I am curious about Sparko's preferences. Which would he choose,
    1) a world in which everyone is a good Christian or behaves like one but no state (purely a human creature) exists anywhere and
    2) the world in which there is one state and it is essentially the same kind as the best state in today's actual world but many people are not Christian?


    Is another question OK? Would you, Sparko, agree that the more Christian the people of the world are, it tends to be closer to the Christian ideal?


    Yet one more question? The more that the people of the world follow the NAP, the better the world becomes? [Note that the question didn't say anything about any state.]
    The greater number of laws . . . , the more thieves . . . there will be. ---- Lao-Tzu

    [T]he truth I’m after and the truth never harmed anyone. What harms us is to persist in self-deceit and ignorance -— Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

  6. #26
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Truthseeker View Post
    I am curious about Sparko's preferences. Which would he choose,
    1) a world in which everyone is a good Christian or behaves like one but no state (purely a human creature) exists anywhere and
    2) the world in which there is one state and it is essentially the same kind as the best state in today's actual world but many people are not Christian?


    Is another question OK? Would you, Sparko, agree that the more Christian the people of the world are, it tends to be closer to the Christian ideal?


    Yet one more question? The more that the people of the world follow the NAP, the better the world becomes? [Note that the question didn't say anything about any state.]
    the problem is that #1 ain't gonna happen till Jesus comes back, and then God will be the "state" so still no "libertairian" utopia. sorry

    #2 cant happen either. but it is closer to reality as it exists now in the USA and western countries.

    what's the NAP?

  7. #27
    Professor Cerebrum123's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    the problem is that #1 ain't gonna happen till Jesus comes back, and then God will be the "state" so still no "libertairian" utopia. sorry

    #2 cant happen either. but it is closer to reality as it exists now in the USA and western countries.

    what's the NAP?
    Non-aggression principle IIRC.

  8. #28
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Ah ok
    The problem I see with libertarianism and the NAP is that it is an ideal that will never happen because if human nature

    It is a nice dream but will and can never be reality in this current world

  9. Amen Cerebrum123 amen'd this post.
  10. #29
    Professor Cerebrum123's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    Ah ok
    The problem I see with libertarianism and the NAP is that it is an ideal that will never happen because if human nature

    It is a nice dream but will and can never be reality in this current world
    Pretty much how I see things as well.

  11. #30
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    question for truthseeker:

    assuming we could convince everyone in the USA to become Libertarian, disband the State, and live entirely by Libertarian principals. No state, no taxes, no army, no government. What would happen to the USA in say 10 years?

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