Murdering Police Should be a Federal Capital Offense

[Cow Poke]

Why not?

If I rant about wanting to kill blacks or homosexuals, that's "hate speech", and the Feds will come down on me.

But groups who call for the death of police... we just need to make excuses for them and try harder to 'understand them'.

It's already a capital offense in some states to kill a police officer.

At the very minimum, that should be a federal offense. Murdering a police officer should be a federal crime.

[Jedidiah]

Well, I think several other crimes should be capital offenses as well.

[demi-conservative]

As long as same punishment for killing federal agents when black helicopters come!!! Fair is fair!

[Spartacus]

The biggest obstacle I can see is that making it a federal crime means the municipality/state can't prosecute it themselves, which, given that it was their police officer who was killed, they may want to do. Fight for their own and all that. How do you think other local police officers and local prosecutors would feel if these cases were taken out of their hands?

[seer]

yes

[Cow Poke]

The biggest obstacle I can see is that making it a federal crime means the municipality/state can't prosecute it themselves, which, given that it was their police officer who was killed, they may want to do. Fight for their own and all that. How do you think other local police officers and local prosecutors would feel if these cases were taken out of their hands?

Good question. It wouldn't, however, necessarily be an "either / or". There is no legal bar to prevent both a state and federal prosecution on the same case. And, no, it's not "double jeopardy", because there's a "separate sovereign" exception.

[Cow Poke]

How do you think other local police officers and local prosecutors would feel if these cases were taken out of their hands?

I meant to address this part, too. In the cases (states) where there is no capital offense for the murder of a police officer, the local officers and prosecutors would most likely be glad to defer to the greater potential for punishment, not only in the hopes that it provides a deterrent (yeah, that's debatable) but it gives a higher bar to 'negotiate down'. For example, if the maximum sentence under local or state statutes is 25 years to life, there may be no incentive for the suspect to give up information or finger associates.

Additionally, it is often true that the US Attorney's office would have far greater resources and experience than a local jurisdiction in prosecuting, and perhaps a better chance of conviction.

[Spartacus]

Good question. It wouldn't, however, necessarily be an "either / or". There is no legal bar to prevent both a state and federal prosecution on the same case. And, no, it's not "double jeopardy", because there's a "separate sovereign" exception.

I remember there being controversy over the Boston Bombing prosecution: given that Massachusetts has abolished the death penalty, people thought that the federal government shouldn't pursue the death penalty in the federal case out of respect for the decision of the people of Massachusetts. They had set aside the death penalty; it didn't seem right to have the feds pursue it on their behalf.

Another question: what is the argument for making it a federal crime? Why, for instance, are hate crimes federally investigated and prosecuted in the first place?

[Cow Poke]

I remember there being controversy over the Boston Bombing prosecution: given that Massachusetts has abolished the death penalty, people thought that the federal government shouldn't pursue the death penalty in the federal case out of respect for the decision of the people of Massachusetts. They had set aside the death penalty; it didn't seem right to have the feds pursue it on their behalf.

And, I have to be honest - I'm conflicted on this, because in other cases, I appeal to "states' rights". I'll stop with that, for now.

Another question: what is the argument for making it a federal crime?

I think it would be argued that federal prosecutors would be much more experienced in this arena, and the punishments would be consistent among jurisdictions under federal law.

Why, for instance, are hate crimes federally investigated and prosecuted in the first place?

Again, I have to admit I'm a bit... um... "hate crimes" seems odd to me -- unless there's nearly overwhelming evidence that a crime was caused by racial hatred or whatever, it's too easy for a simple murder (as opposed to aggravated murder) to be prosecuted as a 'hate crime' simply because the murderer was white and the victim was black.

[Spartacus]

Started a new thread on the hate crimes question because I'm curious about it and the people who actually know more about the subject might not read through this thread

http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/sh...ate-crime-laws

This has been a good discussion so far.

[mikewhitney]

Regarding the original post ...

The US Government has no jurisdiction over murder within a state (except in US Govt areas such as military bases). The way the US Government got jurisdiction over states on some issues is via the 14th amendment. The essential role of the US Government is to protect this class of US Citizenship from violations by the state officials. But the state officials are empowered to protect people from murderers. Thus there is a balance established here.

[ke7ejx]

Again, I have to admit I'm a bit... um... "hate crimes" seems odd to me -- unless there's nearly overwhelming evidence that a crime was caused by racial hatred or whatever, it's too easy for a simple murder (as opposed to aggravated murder) to be prosecuted as a 'hate crime' simply because the murderer was white and the victim was black.

Bingo, Creacher. The general public is always a little (and by 'little', I mean 'a lot') too quick to point fingers toward the accusation of hate or bigotry.

[Cow Poke]

Regarding the original post ...

The US Government has no jurisdiction over murder within a state (except in US Govt areas such as military bases). The way the US Government got jurisdiction over states on some issues is via the 14th amendment. The essential role of the US Government is to protect this class of US Citizenship from violations by the state officials. But the state officials are empowered to protect people from murderers. Thus there is a balance established here.

Ya lost me -- you say the Guv "has no jurisdiction", then you say "the way they got jurisdiction"....

Here, as far as I know, is current list of Federal Laws providing for the death penalty.
http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/fede...-death-penalty

8 U.S.C. 1342 Murder related to the smuggling of aliens.
18 U.S.C. 32-34 Destruction of aircraft, motor vehicles, or related facilities resulting in death.
18 U.S.C. 36 Murder committed during a drug-related drive-by shooting.
18 U.S.C. 37 Murder committed at an airport serving international civil aviation.
18 U.S.C. 115(b)(3) [by cross-reference to 18 U.S.C. 1111] Retaliatory murder of a member of the immediate family of law enforcement officials.
18 U.S.C. 241, 242, 245, 247 Civil rights offenses resulting in death.
18 U.S.C. 351 [by cross-reference to 18 U.S.C. 1111] Murder of a member of Congress, an important executive official, or a Supreme Court Justice.
18 U.S.C. 794 Espionage.
18 U.S.C. 844(d), (f), (i) Death resulting from offenses involving transportation of explosives, destruction of government property, or destruction of property related to foreign or interstate commerce.
18 U.S.C. 924(i) Murder committed by the use of a firearm during a crime of violence or a drug-trafficking crime.
18 U.S.C. 930 Murder committed in a Federal Government facility.
18 U.S.C. 1091 Genocide.
18 U.S.C. 1111 First-degree murder.
18 U.S.C. 1114 Murder of a Federal judge or law enforcement official.
18 U.S.C. 1116 Murder of a foreign official.
18 U.S.C. 1118 Murder by a Federal prisoner.
18 U.S.C. 1119 Murder of a U.S. national in a foreign country.
18 U.S.C. 1120 Murder by an escaped Federal prisoner already sentenced to life imprisonment.
18 U.S.C. 1121 Murder of a State or local law enforcement official or other person aiding in a Federal investigation; murder of a State correctional officer.
18 U.S.C. 1201 Murder during a kidnapping.
18 U.S.C. 1203 Murder during a hostage taking.
18 U.S.C. 1503 Murder of a court officer or juror.
18 U.S.C. 1512 Murder with the intent of preventing testimony by a witness, victim, or informant.
18 U.S.C. 1513 Retaliatory murder of a witness, victim, or informant.
18 U.S.C. 1716 Mailing of injurious articles with intent to kill or resulting in death.
18 U.S.C. 1751 [by cross-reference to 18 U.S.C. 1111] Assassination or kidnapping resulting in the death of the President or Vice President.
18 U.S.C. 1958 Murder for hire.
18 U.S.C. 1959 Murder involved in a racketeering offense.
18 U.S.C. 1992 Willful wrecking of a train resulting in death.
18 U.S.C. 2113 Bank-robbery-related murder or kidnapping.
18 U.S.C. 2119 Murder related to a carjacking.
18 U.S.C. 2245 Murder related to rape or child molestation.
18 U.S.C. 2251 Murder related to sexual exploitation of children.
18 U.S.C. 2280 Murder committed during an offense against maritime navigation.
18 U.S.C. 2281 Murder committed during an offense against a maritime fixed platform.
18 U.S.C. 2332 Terrorist murder of a U.S. national in another country.
18 U.S.C. 2332a Murder by the use of a weapon of mass destruction.
18 U.S.C. 2340 Murder involving torture.
18 U.S.C. 2381 Treason.
21 U.S.C. 848(e) Murder related to a continuing criminal enterprise or related murder of a Federal, State, or local law enforcement officer.
49 U.S.C. 1472-1473 Death resulting from aircraft hijacking.

I have had people tell me there is already a federal law making it a capital offense to murder a police officer, but the only thing I can find is 18 U.S.C. 1121...
"Murder of a State or local law enforcement official or other person aiding in a Federal investigation; murder of a State correctional officer" as above.

Note that it is conditional on the "State or local law enforcement official" "aiding in a Federal investigation".

[mikewhitney]

Here is my breakdown of the privileges and powers relating to the codes you listed:

Commerce and/or Foreign Affairs
8 U.S.C. 1342 Murder related to the smuggling of aliens.
18 U.S.C. 32-34 Destruction of aircraft, motor vehicles, or related facilities resulting in death.

Foreign Affairs and Treason against the US
18 U.S.C. 794 Espionage.
18 U.S.C. 1116 Murder of a foreign official.
18 U.S.C. 1119 Murder of a U.S. national in a foreign country.
18 U.S.C. 1091 Genocide.
18 U.S.C. 2381 Treason.
18 U.S.C. 2332 Terrorist murder of a U.S. national in another country.
18 U.S.C. 1203 Murder during a hostage taking.

Treaty -- though it is questionable whether a treaty can put a requirement on people in the states
18 U.S.C. 2340 Murder involving torture.
http://psm.du.edu/media/documents/us...re_statute.pdf

Interstate Commerce
18 U.S.C. 36 Murder committed during a drug-related drive-by shooting.
18 U.S.C. 37 Murder committed at an airport serving international civil aviation.
18 U.S.C. 844(d), (f), (i) Death resulting from offenses involving transportation of explosives, destruction of government property, or destruction of property related to foreign or interstate commerce.
18 U.S.C. 924(i) Murder committed by the use of a firearm during a crime of violence or a drug-trafficking crime.
18 U.S.C. 1959 Murder involved in a racketeering offense.
18 U.S.C. 1992 Willful wrecking of a train resulting in death.
49 U.S.C. 1472-1473 Death resulting from aircraft hijacking.
18 U.S.C. 1716 Mailing of injurious articles with intent to kill or resulting in death.
18 U.S.C. 1958 Murder for hire.
https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/USCODE...95-sec1958.pdf
18 U.S.C. 2251 Murder related to sexual exploitation of children
18 U.S.C. 2119 Murder related to a carjacking.
18 U.S.C. 2332a Murder by the use of a weapon of mass destruction.

Maritime or US territory
18 U.S.C. 115(b)(3) [by cross-reference to 18 U.S.C. 1111] Retaliatory murder of a member of the immediate family of law enforcement officials.
18 U.S.C. 1111 First-degree murder.
18 U.S.C. 930 Murder committed in a Federal Government facility.
18 U.S.C. 1118 Murder by a Federal prisoner.
18 U.S.C. 2280 Murder committed during an offense against maritime navigation.
18 U.S.C. 2281 Murder committed during an offense against a maritime fixed platform.

14th Amendment
18 U.S.C. 241, 242, 245, 247 Civil rights offenses resulting in death.

Federall Stake involved
18 U.S.C. 2113 Bank-robbery-related murder or kidnapping.
18 U.S.C. 2332a Murder by the use of a weapon of mass destruction.


Federal Worker or someone helping another in his/her capacity as a federal worker
18 U.S.C. 351 [by cross-reference to 18 U.S.C. 1111] Murder of a member of Congress, an important executive official, or a Supreme Court Justice.
18 U.S.C. 1114 Murder of a Federal judge or law enforcement official.
18 U.S.C. 1121...
"Murder of a State or local law enforcement official or other person aiding in a Federal investigation; murder of a State correctional officer" as above.
21 U.S.C. 848(e) Murder related to a continuing criminal enterprise or related murder of a Federal, State, or local law enforcement officer.
18 U.S.C. 1120 Murder by an escaped Federal prisoner already sentenced to life imprisonment.
18 U.S.C. 1121 Murder of a State or local law enforcement official or other person aiding in a Federal investigation; murder of a State correctional officer.
18 U.S.C. 1751 [by cross-reference to 18 U.S.C. 1111] Assassination or kidnapping resulting in the death of the President or Vice President.
18 U.S.C. 1201 Murder during a kidnapping.
https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/USCODE...55-sec1201.pdf
18 U.S.C. 1503 Murder of a court officer or juror.

18 U.S.C. 1512 Murder with the intent of preventing testimony by a witness, victim, or informant.
18 U.S.C. 1513 Retaliatory murder of a witness, victim, or informant.


Just refers to other statutes
18 U.S.C. 2245 Murder related to rape or child molestation..

[Truthseeker]

I've gone through all the posts, I think, and it's not clear to me why making murder of police a federal capital offense would be better than the present policy we have now.