Sodom and Gomorrah

[AP930]

Why were they destroyed? Homosexuality or inhospitality?

What is the Jewish view of homosexuality?

Thank you!

[he-man]

Why were they destroyed? Homosexuality or inhospitality?

What is the Jewish view of homosexuality?

Thank you!

The same as the Bible view!

Ro 1:Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a mind not standing the test, to do those things which are not convenient;

29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,

31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

[hamandcheese]

The historical/scientific view is that Sodom and Gomorrah are cities that existed on the east shore of the dead sea. That goes over a major fault line, and the area experienced a large earthquake between 4500-3500 years ago. This would have possibly opened up natural gas chambers beneath the ground in that area, which would have burnt whatever existed over top of it with intense heat. This is affirmed by archaeological evidence which found the supporting evidence of a few burnt cities and obvious earthquake damage (The cities themselves are now underwater).

This account is affirmed by the Sumerian myths which describe similar cities in the same area with the same names that were destroyed by (in one myth) two fighting Gods who stomped on the cities. There are also transitional stories which incorporate stuff coming from the sky, which may be from a giant volcanic eruption that occurred in the Mediterranean around that time which had corresponding stories.

[he-man]

The historical/scientific view is that Sodom and Gomorrah are cities that existed on the east shore of the dead sea. That goes over a major fault line, and the area experienced a large earthquake between 4500-3500 years ago. This would have possibly opened up natural gas chambers beneath the ground in that area, which would have burnt whatever existed over top of it with intense heat. This is affirmed by archaeological evidence which found the supporting evidence of a few burnt cities and obvious earthquake damage (The cities themselves are now underwater).

This account is affirmed by the Sumerian myths which describe similar cities in the same area with the same names that were destroyed by (in one myth) two fighting Gods who stomped on the cities. There are also transitional stories which incorporate stuff coming from the sky, which may be from a giant volcanic eruption that occurred in the Mediterranean around that time which had corresponding stories.

The History Channel had quite a story on Sodom and Gomorrah. Archeologists found the mummified bodies recently, encased in volcanic residue, which preserved the bodies. Their remains of skeletons were intact and preserved by the ash from the volcano, which suffocated and covered them first before being encased in the lava.

The story is representative of Lot and his wife, the harlotry of the people, and the Angels who guided Lot.
It is a significient story that relates to the coming of the Last Days, when we are told not to go back for a change of clothes.

Mt 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all gentiles; and then shall the end come.
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

Mt 13:14 ¶ But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:
15 And let him that is on the housetop not go down into the house, neither enter therein, to take any thing out of his house:
16 And let him that is in the field not turn back again for to take up his garment.
21 And then if any man shall say to you, Lo, here is Christ; or, lo, he is there; believe him not:
22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.
26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

[Thersites]

I have seen people holding signs that say, "Who would Jesus bomb?"

[he-man]

I have seen people holding signs that say, "Who would Jesus bomb?"

Jude 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

Mt 24:14 ..... and then shall the end come...... And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh..... But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God......

Re 19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

Zec 14:3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.

2 Th 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

[Xmansmommy]

Why were they destroyed? Homosexuality or inhospitality?

What is the Jewish view of homosexuality?

Thank you!

AP, I'm not sure if it's ok to post here so if not the mods can remove this. I've often heard it said that S&G's sin was homosexuality. However when I read the scriptures I get a very different picture of their sins.

Judah and Jerusalem are referred to S&G in that they were comitting the same crimes!

Isaiah 110, 15-17: Hear the word of the Lord,you rulers of Sodom! Give ear to the teaching of our God, you people of Gomorrah!...When you spread out your hands, I will hide my eyes from you; even though you make many prayers, I will not listen; your hands are full of blood. Wash yourselves; make yourselves clean; remove the evil of your deeds from before my eyes; cease to do evil, learn to do good; seek justice, correct oppression; bring justice to the fatherless, plead the widow's cause.

Jer 23:14 But in the prophets of Jerusalem I have seen a horrible thing: they commit adultery and walk in lies; they strengthen the hands of evildoers, so that no one turns from his evil; all of them have become like Sodom to me, and its inhabitants like Gomorrah.”

Ezekiel 16:47-50 Not only did you walk in their ways and do according to their abominations; within a very little time you were more corrupt than they in all your ways. As I live, declares the Lord God, your sister Sodom and her daughters have not done as you and your daughters have done. Behold, this was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had pride, excess of food, and prosperous ease, but did not aid the poor and needy. They were haughty and did an abomination before me.

The bible is pretty clear about the sins of S&G, Jerusalem and Judah all throughout it's pages. Jerusalem and Judah not only committed the same sins as S&G but they exceeded them! Thus Jesus' harsh words against the leaders of his time.

[he-man]

AP, I'm not sure if it's ok to post here so if not the mods can remove this. I've often heard it said that S&G's sin was homosexuality. However when I read the scriptures I get a very different picture of their sins.

Judah and Jerusalem are referred to S&G in that they were comitting the same crimes!

Isaiah 110, 15-17: Hear the word of the Lord,you rulers of Sodom! Give ear to the teaching of our God, you people of Gomorrah!...When you spread out your hands, I will hide my eyes from you; even though you make many prayers, I will not listen; your hands are full of blood. Wash yourselves; make yourselves clean; remove the evil of your deeds from before my eyes; cease to do evil, learn to do good; seek justice, correct oppression; bring justice to the fatherless, plead the widow's cause.

Jer 23:14 But in the prophets of Jerusalem I have seen a horrible thing: they commit adultery and walk in lies; they strengthen the hands of evildoers, so that no one turns from his evil; all of them have become like Sodom to me, and its inhabitants like Gomorrah.”

Ezekiel 16:47-50 Not only did you walk in their ways and do according to their abominations; within a very little time you were more corrupt than they in all your ways. As I live, declares the Lord God, your sister Sodom and her daughters have not done as you and your daughters have done. Behold, this was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had pride, excess of food, and prosperous ease, but did not aid the poor and needy. They were haughty and did an abomination before me.

The bible is pretty clear about the sins of S&G, Jerusalem and Judah all throughout it's pages. Jerusalem and Judah not only committed the same sins as S&G but they exceeded them! Thus Jesus' harsh words against the leaders of his time.

Have you not read the other comments???

Jude 1:7Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication(1608), and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

1608 εκπορνευω prostitution, males with males, whoring,

Peter specifically shows in II Peter 2:5-6 that the Flood is a strong witness against the doctrine of uniformitarianism, the idea that earth's history has passed without variation through the ages:

. . . and [God] did not spare the ancient world, but saved Noah, one of eight people, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood on the world of the ungodly; and turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes, condemned them to destruction, making them an example to those who afterward would live ungodly. . . .

If God is the Savior and Rewarder of those who obey Him, then the opposite must be true: that He is the Punisher of those who despise Him. The Flood and Sodom are witnesses of this truth. Not all things have continued as they always have. The godly lived; the ungodly died. Despite what men say and think, God moved to punish mankind's sins in the days of Noah. That punishment came in the form of the Flood, which wiped out all land-based mammal and bird life except for Noah, his family, and the animals in the ark.

[umbro]

Why were they destroyed? Homosexuality or inhospitality?

What is the Jewish view of homosexuality?

Thank you!

Despite what the raging maniac he-man says, the old testament is pretty clear on why Sodom was destroyed, it was for greed, pride, and hate of foriegners.
Kind of like modern day Conservative America.

Here is Flavius Josephus:

Now, about this time the Sodomites, overwhelmingly proud of their numbers and the extent of their wealth, showed themselves insolent to men and impious to the divinity, insomuch that they no more remembered the benefits that they had received from him, hated foreigners and avoided any contact with others. Indignant at this conduct, God accordingly resolved to chastise them for their arrogance, and not only to uproot their city, but to blast their land so completely that it should yield neither plant nor fruit whatsoever from that time forward.
—Jewish Antiquities 1:194-195

[he-man]

Despite what the raging maniac he-man says, the old testament is pretty clear on why Sodom was destroyed, it was for greed, pride, and hate of foriegners.
Kind of like modern day Conservative America.

Here is Flavius Josephus:

Jude 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to prostitution, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

Ge 13:13 But the men of Sodom were wicked and sinners before the LORD exceedingly.
32 And he said, Oh let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak yet but this once: Peradventure ten shall be found there. And he said, I will not destroy it for ten’s sake.
5 And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them. Carnally)
7 And said, I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly. (to lie down with men)

16 And while he lingered, the men (angels) laid hold upon his hand, and upon the hand of his wife, and upon the hand of his two daughters; the LORD being merciful unto him: and they brought him forth, and set him without the city.

De 29:23 And that the whole land thereof is brimstone, and salt, and burning, that it is not sown, nor beareth, nor any grass groweth therein, like the overthrow of Sodom, and Gomorrah, Admah, and Zeboim, which the LORD overthrew in his anger, and in his wrath:25 Then men shall say, Because they have forsaken the covenant of the LORD God of their fathers, which he made with them when he brought them forth out of the land of Egypt:
26 For they went and served other gods, and worshipped them, gods whom they knew not, and whom he had not given unto them:

Re 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

[Xmansmommy]

Have you not read the other comments???

Yes of course I have. Have you read mine? What do you think about what the OT prophets seemed to think the sin of S&G was as opposed to the NT authors?

Jude 1:7Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication(1608), and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

1608 εκπορνευω prostitution, males with males, whoring,

There are plenty of threads here on TWeb that thoroughly address this issue. I personally am not equipped to debate it but I concur with those that are.

Peter specifically shows in II Peter 2:5-6 that the Flood is a strong witness against the doctrine of uniformitarianism, the idea that earth's history has passed without variation through the ages:

. . . and [God] did not spare the ancient world, but saved Noah, one of eight people, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood on the world of the ungodly; and turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes, condemned them to destruction, making them an example to those who afterward would live ungodly. . . .

If God is the Savior and Rewarder of those who obey Him, then the opposite must be true: that He is the Punisher of those who despise Him. The Flood and Sodom are witnesses of this truth. Not all things have continued as they always have. The godly lived; the ungodly died. Despite what men say and think, God moved to punish mankind's sins in the days of Noah. That punishment came in the form of the Flood, which wiped out all land-based mammal and bird life except for Noah, his family, and the animals in the ark.

When I read the OT, I find that the ungodly (even amongst God's chosen people) were those that did not meet the needs of the fatherless and widows or who served other gods (meaning they weren't doing what God desired in meeting the needs of the fatherless, widows and oppressed). If homosexuality were a major concern for God or His people, I would think it would be addressed in far greater detail. Yet, it isn't.

[Xmansmommy]

Jude 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to prostitution, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

Ge 13:13 But the men of Sodom were wicked and sinners before the LORD exceedingly.
32 And he said, Oh let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak yet but this once: Peradventure ten shall be found there. And he said, I will not destroy it for ten’s sake.
5 And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them. Carnally)
7 And said, I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly. (to lie down with men)
16 And while he lingered, the men (angels) laid hold upon his hand, and upon the hand of his wife, and upon the hand of his two daughters; the LORD being merciful unto him: and they brought him forth, and set him without the city.

The "them" were the angels, not other men. A little off topic but while we're at it, Lot offered his own virgin daughters to be raped by these men. Not exactly a heroic act IMO. But it is what it is.

De 29:23 And that the whole land thereof is brimstone, and salt, and burning, that it is not sown, nor beareth, nor any grass groweth therein, like the overthrow of Sodom, and Gomorrah, Admah, and Zeboim, which the LORD overthrew in his anger, and in his wrath:25 Then men shall say, Because they have forsaken the covenant of the LORD God of their fathers, which he made with them when he brought them forth out of the land of Egypt:
26 For they went and served other gods, and worshipped them, gods whom they knew not, and whom he had not given unto them:

Re 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

I'm not sure why these passages were quoted as addressing homosexuality.

[he-man]

Jude 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to prostitution, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

Ge 13:13 But the men of Sodom were wicked and sinners before the LORD exceedingly.
32 And he said, Oh let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak yet but this once: Peradventure ten shall be found there. And he said, I will not destroy it for ten’s sake.
5 And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them. (Carnally)
7 And said, I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly. (to lie down with men)

16 And while he lingered, the men (angels) laid hold upon his hand, and upon the hand of his wife, and upon the hand of his two daughters; the LORD being merciful unto him: and they brought him forth, and set him without the city.

De 29:23 And that the whole land thereof is brimstone, and salt, and burning, that it is not sown, nor beareth, nor any grass groweth therein, like the overthrow of Sodom, and Gomorrah, Admah, and Zeboim, which the LORD overthrew in his anger, and in his wrath:25 Then men shall say, Because they have forsaken the covenant of the LORD God of their fathers, which he made with them when he brought them forth out of the land of Egypt:
26 For they went and served other gods, and worshipped them, gods whom they knew not, and whom he had not given unto them:

Re 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Just a little more light on the cause of whoring !

Heb 3:12) Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. (13) But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. (14) For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;

Hosea 4:10 For they shall eat, and not have enough: they shall commit whoredom, and shall not increase: because they have left off to take heed to the LORD.

11 Whoredom and wine and new wine take away the heart.

12 My people ask counsel at their stocks, and their staff declareth unto them: for the spirit of whoredoms hath caused them to err, and they have gone a whoring from under their God

13 They sacrifice upon the tops of the mountains, and burn incense upon the hills, under oaks and poplars and elms, because the shadow thereof is good: therefore your daughters shall commit whoredom, and your spouses shall commit adultery.

14 I will not punish your daughters when they commit whoredom, nor your spouses when they commit adultery: for themselves are separated with whores, and they sacrifice with harlots: therefore are of the people that doth not understand

[sylvius]

Why were they destroyed? Homosexuality or inhospitality?

What is the Jewish view of homosexuality?

Thank you!

It was the prerequisite for your Messiah to come.

For if they were not destroyed Lot's wife wouldn't have become a pillar of salt and Lot's daughters wouldn't have said : "Our father is old, and there is no man on earth to come upon us, as is the custom of all the earth", and wouldn't have given their father wine to drink and have laid with him and Moab would not have existed, and there wouldn't have been daughters of Moab either, and no Ruth to become mother of the Messianic generation ...

[he-man]

It was the prerequisite for your Messiah to come.

For if they were not destroyed Lot's wife wouldn't have become a pillar of salt and Lot's daughters wouldn't have said : "Our father is old, and there is no man on earth to come upon us, as is the custom of all the earth", and wouldn't have given their father wine to drink and have laid with him and Moab would not have existed, and there wouldn't have been daughters of Moab either, and no Ruth to become mother of the Messianic generation ...

Heb 3:12) Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
Hosea 4:10For they shall eat, and not have enough: they shall commit whoredom, and shall not increase: because they have left off to take heed to the LORD.

11 Whoredom and wine and new wine take away the heart.