Insidious "revivals"

[T-Shirt Ninja]

Joe continues. "I'm hearing in the spirit that there's someone here who has lost hearing in her right ear; something about a baseball; who is that?"

This is what often bothers me. People claiming to be prophets will say, "Something like..." to someone else. It doesn't seem to match what the prophets in the Bible said when they knew for a fact what a person did or had because God told them directly. No guessing or hard of hearing involved. To be honest, this type of tactic sounds like cold reading (note: I disagree with James Randi's secular humanism, but he is great on nailing people like Sylvia Brown).

[TyRockwell]

WHAT?!?!?!?!

You are either NOT paying attention, or You CAN'T read, or you don't BELIEVE 1st John 4:2-3.

I quoted it in this thread AT LEAST TWICE. I gave the reference.

The Word of God tells us how to test the spirits, right there in 1st John 4:2-3, which you obviously don't believe.

Read this SLOWLY and out loud to yourselves: "Every Spirit that confesses Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God."

This is true about the spirits of the ministers you keep condemning at the Holy Spirit Outpouring. These ministers confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh.

You keep saying you test the spirits, but you don't use the test!!! This is the verse where you get the "test the spirits" phrase you use, the very same verse! Then you use some other unspecified verse to say you are testing by the word of God!

You HAVE NO ABILITY TO READ and COMPREHEND. You are unspiritual dimwits! The LORD REBUKE you!

[Meta Knight]

You are either NOT paying attention, or You CAN'T read, or you don't BELIEVE 1st John 4:2-3.

I quoted it in this thread AT LEAST TWICE. I gave the reference.

The Word of God tells us how to test the spirits, right there in 1st John 4:2-3, which you obviously don't believe.

Read this SLOWLY and out loud to yourselves: "Every Spirit that confesses Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God."

This is true about the spirits of the ministers you keep condemning at the Holy Spirit Outpouring. These ministers confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh.

You keep saying you test the spirits, but you don't use the test!!! This is the verse where you get the "test the spirits" phrase you use, the very same verse! Then you use some other unspecified verse to say you are testing by the word of God!

You HAVE NO ABILITY TO READ and COMPREHEND. You are unspiritual dimwits! The LORD REBUKE you!

Hold on, You said "We test the spirits by the Holy Spirit. Not the written word," and now you're saying we should test the spirits with the test WRITTEN in 1 John.

That's a glaring and extremely blatant contradiction.

[T-Shirt Ninja]

Oh boy...

The Word of God tells us how to test the spirits, right there in 1st John 4:2-3, which you obviously don't believe.

Read this SLOWLY and out loud to yourselves: "Every Spirit that confesses Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God."

This is true about the spirits of the ministers you keep condemning at the Holy Spirit Outpouring. These ministers confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh.

Ty, what people have been trying to tell you is that the verses that tell us to test the spirits have a much deeper context than what is read on the surface. I guarantee a Jehovah's Witness will say to you, "Jesus Christ has come in the flesh." Does that mean they are true ministers of God? Absolutely not. 1 John is written in a much higher context than what we as Americans are used to. This means that the language may use simple phrases such as, "Every spirit that confesses Jesus Christ has come in the flesh" but there is a large amount of meaning within that statement. John is talking about true ministers of God who really know Jesus Christ and are correct on all points about Him. A false minister/prophet will often get many points correct about Jesus but will also put lies about Jesus mixed in there.

[TyRockwell]

Ty, you've been relentless in your defense of what is happening in Lakeland, as well as the men who are at the center of it. At the same time, you've been very critical and condemning of the people here who are questioning it. How are you so certain you have it right and not reversed?

For a man who is sure that he is witnessing a great outpouring of the Spirit, you sure seem angry, desperate, and accusatory. I would think that you would be the one person in this thread who was filled with joy and praises that God is moving. I looked through the whole thread and found only this quote from you that sounds mildly pleased that people are being healed, which you express in terms of what others should be feeling, and a little more excited about people coming to Jesus.



Then, much later, you posted this:

which pretty much confirms my suspicions that this is just a competition for you. I doubt you really care much what anyone here thinks about what is going on in Florida.

I am filled with joy and praising! And yes, I am taking a strong stand. I stand against the accusers, You've got it absolutely backwards to say that I seem critical and accusatory. Peple like Raphael, Jardin prayer and JohnLance-Barker are the ones being critical, accusatory and off-base big-time with their unspiritual minds. They use the phrase "test the spirits" and then don't use the teast that very verse gives. The Holy Spirit is confirming the word of God with accompanying signs.

The self apointed accusers of the outpouring are wrong. The test is that the ministers at the outpouring are involved in deep spiritual worship and praise of Jesus. They know he came in the flesh. The are honoring God.

The critics here are foolish. They can't discern the Holy Spirit. They say dumb things like, "the devil and demon spirits do things that way." They've got it backwards. Satan, and demons only copy what God does, not the other way around. Nothing the ministers at Lakeland are doing leads anyone astray. People are coming to Jesus. They should be praising God for that. Instead they falsely accuse, accuse, accuse, accuse, accuse, accuse, accuse, and accuse falsely.

These critics are misguided at best. They are doing exactly what the Pharisees and priests did to Jesus.
Did Jesus just take it? No, he rebuked them. He railed against them. He called them hypocrites. If these self-appointed judges don't like being rebuked and called unspiritual, and foolish dimwits, then they need to stop acting like Pharasaical hypocrites.

[T-Shirt Ninja]

They use the phrase "test the spirits" and then don't use the teast that very verse gives. The Holy Spirit is confirming the word of God with accompanying signs.

We are to test the signs to see if they are of the Holy Spirit. The only way we can do this is with the Word of God.

The self apointed accusers of the outpouring are wrong. The test is that the ministers at the outpouring are involved in deep spiritual worship and praise of Jesus. They know he came in the flesh. The are honoring God.

Wrong, dude. Just because a minister can lift his hands and say, "Praise God!" does NOT make him a true minister of the faith. Ministers who are Oneness Pentecostals do that and I think it's pretty clear that they are not in the faith since they deny the Trinity and teach salvation by works.

The critics here are foolish. They can't discern the Holy Spirit.

Ty, I know you've been warned of this already, but you seriously need to be careful with your words here against other people. Many of the people you've railed against have studied the Word of God diligently and want to keep others from being deceived.

Nothing the ministers at Lakeland are doing leads anyone astray. People are coming to Jesus. They should be praising God for that. Instead they falsely accuse, accuse, accuse, accuse, accuse, accuse, accuse, and accuse falsely.

Ty, what they're doing is honestly questioning and looking into what very could be deceptive practices. It's not wrong to see if what these Lakeland ministers matches with the Word of God and if true miracles are actually taking place. Just because these Lakeland ministers can praise God with their lips doesn't mean that their hearts are close to Him.

These critics are misguided at best. They are doing exactly what the Pharisees and priests did to Jesus.
Did Jesus just take it? No, he rebuked them. He railed against them. He called them hypocrites. If these self-appointed judges don't like being rebuked and called unspiritual, and foolish dimwits, then they need to stop acting like Pharasaical hypocrites.

Ty, I'm dead serious when I say that you really need to be careful with your words here. Jesus did not rail against the Pharisees. He called them out on what they truly were--no more, no less. The Bible says it's wrong to rail on people. Check it out:

Jude 1:9 - "9But Michael the archangel, when he disputed with the devil and argued about the body of Moses, did not dare pronounce against him a railing judgment, but said, "The Lord rebuke you!"

2 Peter 2:9-11 - "9The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:10But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.11Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord."

Ty, I'm seriously trying to help you out here. I really don't want you to bring railing accusations against these people you hardly know and then have to face the Lord for it. Be careful with your words. Address the argument and leave the character of those who disagree with you alone.

[JonLanceBarker]

Ministers who are Oneness Pentecostals do that and I think it's pretty clear that they are not in the faith since they deny the Trinity and teach salvation by works.

Guess what Ty happens to be?

[TyRockwell]

Oh boy...



Ty, what people have been trying to tell you is that the verses that tell us to test the spirits have a much deeper context than what is read on the surface. I guarantee a Jehovah's Witness will say to you, "Jesus Christ has come in the flesh." Does that mean they are true ministers of God? Absolutely not. 1 John is written in a much higher context than what we as Americans are used to. This means that the language may use simple phrases such as, "Every spirit that confesses Jesus Christ has come in the flesh" but there is a large amount of meaning within that statement. John is talking about true ministers of God who really know Jesus Christ and are correct on all points about Him. A false minister/prophet will often get many points correct about Jesus but will also put lies about Jesus mixed in there.

No one is correct on all points about the Holy Spirit. You can know Jesus and not be perfect. That is the awesomeness of His saving power. He was perfect for us. A minister, even the best one you know, fill in the blank, _________, can be off about a scripture or a date or whether or not there is a 'rapture' without being condemned for it.

The critics of the current outpouring are not as gracious as God is, Who said, "Judge not."

That is why new testament prophets are not held to the exact requirements of perfection as the old testament prophets were. Nor are new testament ministers. Look at all the old testament prophets whose prophecies did not become fullfilled in their lifetimes.

That is why I said I test the spirits by the Holy Spirit, and not by the word of God. It takes a discernment that these critics just do not have. If I were testing by the word of God as they recommend, then I would not be using discernment.

Their 'proofs' are based upon what they don't see in the word of God. That is why their test is flawed. God is doing a new thing that He has not done in this way before. Therefore you can't find a pattern like something that was done before.

I know the ministers at Lakeland are under the unction and guiding of the Holy Spirit. The critics don't know otherwise. They don't judge by the Spirit, they judge by looking for a previous example in the Word. They also judge it by saying demons do those things. No, they do not. The critics think they see 'similarities,' but you've got to be using a very broad brush to paint it that way. It is like saying 'only a spirit can do that,' and then ruling out the Holy Spirit!

Jesus said that new wine is not poured into old wineskins. They are old wineskins, and it is no one's fault but their own. They got stuck in a religious rut and took pride in their accomplishment. They can be made into new wineskins, but they are too proud or too fearful to want to be made new in the spirit of their minds.

[TyRockwell]

Go ahead and judge it as a railing accusation, you'd be wrong and you'd be a hypocrite. May God have mercy on your soul.

[Michelle]

I am filled with joy and praising! And yes, I am taking a strong stand. I stand against the accusers, You've got it absolutely backwards to say that I seem critical and accusatory. Peple like Raphael, Jardin prayer and JohnLance-Barker are the ones being critical, accusatory and off-base big-time with their unspiritual minds. They use the phrase "test the spirits" and then don't use the teast that very verse gives. The Holy Spirit is confirming the word of God with accompanying signs.

The self apointed accusers of the outpouring are wrong. The test is that the ministers at the outpouring are involved in deep spiritual worship and praise of Jesus. They know he came in the flesh. The are honoring God.

The critics here are foolish. They can't discern the Holy Spirit. They say dumb things like, "the devil and demon spirits do things that way." They've got it backwards. Satan, and demons only copy what God does, not the other way around. Nothing the ministers at Lakeland are doing leads anyone astray. People are coming to Jesus. They should be praising God for that. Instead they falsely accuse, accuse, accuse, accuse, accuse, accuse, accuse, and accuse falsely.

These critics are misguided at best. They are doing exactly what the Pharisees and priests did to Jesus.
Did Jesus just take it? No, he rebuked them. He railed against them. He called them hypocrites. If these self-appointed judges don't like being rebuked and called unspiritual, and foolish dimwits, then they need to stop acting like Pharasaical hypocrites.

I am amazed at how far you are removed from reality.

[T-Shirt Ninja]

Go ahead and judge it as a railing accusation, you'd be wrong and you'd be a hypocrite. May God have mercy on your soul.

Dude, I was warning you to be careful about your words against other members here.

Since I'd rather not beat a dead horse, I'll let that stand. Good day to you. I see no more reason to post on this thread.

[TyRockwell]

We are to test the signs to see if they are of the Holy Spirit. The only way we can do this is with the Word of God.

No. it is not the only way. You can produce evidence that people are being led astray. You can produce evidence that people are not being healed by the power of the Holy Spirit.

Ty, I know you've been warned of this already, but you seriously need to be careful with your words here against other people. Many of the people you've railed against have studied the Word of God diligently and want to keep others from being deceived.

Yes a lot of people have studied the word of God and have gotten it wrong that's why we have more than two denominations. You've noticed, right?

That 'wanting to keep others from being deceived' is the problem. THEY are taking their arguments too far.

Ty, what they're doing is honestly questioning and looking into what very could be deceptive practices. It's not wrong to see if what these Lakeland ministers matches with the Word of God and if true miracles are actually taking place. Just because these Lakeland ministers can praise God with their lips doesn't mean that their hearts are close to Him.

Without discernment you cannot know. You are not getting any evidence, nor are you rightly using the word of God.
The word of God tells you that God does new things that have never been seen nor done before.

Jesus did not rail against the Pharisees. He called them out on what they truly were--no more, no less. I really don't want you to bring railing accusations against these people you hardly know and then have to face the Lord for it. Be careful with your words. Address the argument and leave the character of those who disagree with you alone.

I should not use the word 'rail.' I was thinking about the things Jesus said to the Pharisees in Matthew 23. Use the word that fits there. It was at least an indictment.

Tone them down, then. They are impugning characters they don't know. They don't present 100s of falsely healed people. They don't present dozens of people who have gone off to form a cult or worship demons or angels. They haven't given this move of God enough time to see what fruit it produces. The Holy Spirit produces much fruit that remains. They will search until they find one or two weirdos (that Satan will be so happy to supply) to say what they want to hear. But they are already ignoring or naysaying all the positively true and good. Why?

If this were a courtroom, half of what they have said would be over-ruled as "hearsay." The other half would be considered unsubstantiated, simply because the accusation of what they think 'could be' is not proof.

[JardinPrayer]

I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm tired of trying to reason with Ty. If we all stop posting, maybe we can just go an pray instead. Poor fella. I'm unsubscribing to this thread.

[Sparko]

You had it coming.

You are evil. You had that coming.

[Sparko]

I am amazed at how far you are removed from reality.

really. he condemns us for judging in the same breath he judges us. Then he claims that anyone who claims Jesus has come in the flesh is from God so that means they can not be wrong or lie.

OK Let's try that out.

Ty, I confess that Jesus has come in the flesh. I proclaim that Todd Bentley is a false prophet and a phoney who is using people instead of healing them.

must mean what I said comes from God, right?