Evidence and Clear Examples of Factual errors & historical inaccuracies in the Quran.

[Dan Zebiri]

Please dont spout more and more NONSENSE, barney!

Jesus Christ is the Lord of the Universe, and the creative Word of God - the divine LOGOS, NO LESS!

He alone gives, ETERNAL LIFE, no less, to the souls of men and women.

John 20v27-29:

27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.

28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My LORD and my God.

29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

and

John 10v25-28:

25Jesus answered them, "I told you, and you do not believe; the works that I do in My Father's name, these testify of Me.

26"But you do not believe because you are not of My sheep.

27"My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;

28 and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.

Barney, your failure to take cognizance of these facts causes you to deny the LORDSHIP of Jesus Christ - over all things and all living things.including over yourself!

Dan.

[barnasha]

Please dont spout more and more NONSENSE, barney!

act noble

[Dan Zebiri]

O, barney, I AM noble, & dont have to ACT...:-)))

Just STICK TO THE POINTS AND don't evade them, address them factually and rationally, if ever you CAN!

Jesus Christ is the Lord of the Universe, and the creative Word of God - the divine LOGOS, NO LESS!

He alone gives, ETERNAL LIFE, no less, to the souls of men and women.

John 20v27-29:

27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.

28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My LORD and my God.

29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

and

John 10v25-28:

25Jesus answered them, "I told you, and you do not believe; the works that I do in My Father's name, these testify of Me.

26"But you do not believe because you are not of My sheep.

27"My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;

28 and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.

EVEN Muhamad could never give eternal life to anybody!

BUT Christ Jesus definitely COULD, thats because He is the Lord of Life, and so can give eternal life to anybody who chooses to follow Him and ambrace redemption through Christ.

Barney, your failure to take cognizance of these facts causes you to deny the LORDSHIP of Jesus Christ - over all things and all living things.including over yourself!

Dan.

[Dan Zebiri]

Barney, Ibn Talib's son & ms.sue,

Can you explain WHY Muhamad could never give eternal life to his followers, BUT JESUS CHRIST CERTAINLY CAN?

And also why, at the end of this Age, it is Jesus Christ whose going to return in power and great glory, to judge the Earth and its inhabitants, as Jesus Himself declared so:

"Matthew 24:30 :-

"And then [Matt 24:3; Rev 1:7] the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see [Dan 7:13; Matt 16:27; 24:3, 37, 39] the SON OF MAN COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF THE SKY with power and great glory.

Matthew 26:64(Whole Chapter) :-

Jesus said to him:

" [Matt 26:25] : " You have said it yourself; nevertheless I tell you, hereafter you will see [Ps 110:1; Mark 14:62] THE SON OF MAN SITTING AT THE RIGHT HAND OF POWER, and [Dan 7:13; Matt 16:27] COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF HEAVEN."

THATS HOW, Jesus Christ, the Son of Man AND the ONLY Son of God, will be returning at the end of the ages - AS A KING and JUDGE!

Still awaiting your thoughtful response (NOT knee-jerk or polemical)!

Dan.

[smaneck]

O, barney, I AM noble, & dont have to ACT...:-)))

Just STICK TO THE POINTS AND don't evade them, address them factually and rationally, if ever you CAN!

Right. And you prove your nobility by cyper-shouting it.

[Ibn Abu Talib]

Can you explain WHY Muhamad could never give eternal life to his followers, BUT JESUS CHRIST CERTAINLY CAN?

If Christ gives eternal life to his followers, then how come they are all dead?

And also why, at the end of this Age, it is Jesus Christ whose going to return in power and great glory, to judge the Earth and its inhabitants, as Jesus Himself declared so:

"Matthew 24:30 :-

"And then [Matt 24:3; Rev 1:7] the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see [Dan 7:13; Matt 16:27; 24:3, 37, 39] the SON OF MAN COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF THE SKY with power and great glory

.

End of time? Matthew (24:34) has it that all these apocalyptic stuff would take place during the time of the apostles themselves. Since no such events took place, the story is nothing more than a pious forgery. As James Tabor writes, "There is absolutely clear evidence running through the New Testament documents that the early followers of Jesus (Nazarenes) were convinced that they were living very close to the end of the Age. They expected the "Parousia" (arrival) of the Messiah within the span of their generation. This apocalyptic hope was largely based on the preaching of Jesus himself that the "Kingdom of God was at hand," as well as a general understanding of the prophecies of the book of Daniel, especially chapters 9 and 11. It is only in some of the latest texts of the New Testament that this hope begins to wane (e.g., 2 Timothy 4:6-8; 2 Peter 3:8-10)."

So much for Divine Inspiration!

[barnasha]

If Christ gives eternal life to his followers, then how come they are all dead?

Eternal life is a metaphor.

[smaneck]

Barney, Ibn Talib's son & ms.sue,

Can you explain WHY Muhamad could never give eternal life to his followers, BUT JESUS CHRIST CERTAINLY CAN?

Because Jesus task was to save individuals souls while Muhammad's work was to work toward the transformation of the world through action in the world.

And also why, at the end of this Age, it is Jesus Christ whose going to return in power and great glory, to judge the Earth and its inhabitants

,

And He did as Baha'u'llah.;-}

"Matthew 24:30 :-

"And then [Matt 24:3; Rev 1:7] the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see [Dan 7:13; Matt 16:27; 24:3, 37, 39] the SON OF MAN COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF THE SKY with power and great glory.

Praise ye the Lord of Hosts for He, riding upon the clouds, hath come down to this world out of the heaven of the invisible realm, so that East and West were lit by the glory of the Sun of Truth, and the call of the Kingdom was raised, and the heralds of the realm above, with melodies of the Concourse on high, sang out the glad tidings of the Coming. Then the whole world of being did quiver for joy, and still the people, even as the Messiah saith, slept on: for the day of the Manifestation, when the Lord of Hosts descended, found them wrapped in the slumber of unknowing. As He saith in the Gospel, My coming is even as when the thief is in the house, and the goodman of the house watcheth not.

(Abdu'l-Baha, Selections from the Writings of Abdu'l-Baha, p. 34)

Not the answer you wanted, huh?

Still awaiting your thoughtful response (NOT knee-jerk or polemical)!

Dan.

The best way to get thoughtful responses is to avoid rhetorical questions. ;-}

warmest, Susan

[barnasha]

Because Jesus task was to save individuals souls while Muhammad's work was to work toward the transformation of the world through action in the world.

quite so, and both had immense success (as God has willed)

once we figure out what eternal life is, we know that it comes from within .

Jesus cannot be "born again in the spirit" FOR us.

One must do it for his or her self.

[Dan Zebiri]

Not quite a metaphor, barney, neither is it 'to live forever on THIS earth', Ibn Abu talib! I am surprised that you have such a shallow mind, ya ibn abu talib! Of course, the followers of Christ died two thousand years ago! But they still have eternal life ALREADY! For they all acknowledged Christ as their Lord and King, and their Redeemer.

Eternal life means LIFE IN THE HEREAFTER, in Akhirah, not in THIS DUNYA (world/earth)!

Jesus Christ declared in no uncertain terms THAT ONLY HE has the power and authority to give ETERNAL LIFE to those who acknowledge Him as their Lord and Saviour, and no one can snatch these souls from His mighty hand!

Not even Muhamad had this kind of authority and power! He himself needs to be saved inshaallah!

Dan.

Eternal life is a metaphor.

[mudcake]

Not quite a metaphor, barney, neither is it 'to live forever on THIS earth', Ibn Abu talib! I am surprised that you have such a shallow mind, ya ibn abu talib! Of course, the followers of Christ died two thousand years ago! But they still have eternal life ALREADY! For they all acknowledged Christ as their Lord and King, and their Redeemer.

Eternal life means LIFE IN THE HEREAFTER, in Akhirah, not in THIS DUNYA (world/earth)!

Jesus Christ declared in no uncertain terms THAT ONLY HE has the power and authority to give ETERNAL LIFE to those who acknowledge Him as their Lord and Saviour, and no one can snatch these souls from His mighty hand!

Not even Muhamad had this kind of authority and power! He himself needs to be saved inshaallah!

Dan.

"O ye who believe! give your response to Allah and His Messenger, when He calleth you to that which will give you life; and know that Allah cometh in between a man and his heart, and that it is He to Whom ye shall (all) be gathered."(Qur'an 8:24)

“if you love Allah then follow me and Allah will love you and forgive you your sins. And Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.” (Qur’an 3:31)

Hi dan..... long time no debate...lol... when i'm done with my debate with AP and Rupert in the 'unorthodox theology' section, inshaAllah I'll come and play with you and Narian soon...
you are both more than welcome to participate in our debate if you think you can defend your dubious concept of a triune god.....

May Allah guide you both to Islam and show you the dubious origins of your christological belief about the Jesus, the Prophet and Messiah of God.

[Ibn Abu Talib]

But they still have eternal life ALREADY! For they all acknowledged Christ as their Lord and King, and their Redeemer

How do you know?

[Dan Zebiri]

That question just shows your pathetic IGNORANCE of the teachings of Jesus Christ and the true Injil, and just how little you have really read or even studied the text of the Bible honestly!

As Jesus Himself already proclaimed:

John 10v25-28:

25 Jesus answered them, "I told you, and you do not believe; the works that I do in My Father's name, these testify of Me.

26 "But you do not believe because you are not of My sheep.

27 "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;

28 and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.

EVEN Muhamad could never give eternal life to anybody!

BUT Christ Jesus definitely COULD, thats because He is the Lord of Life, and so can give eternal life to anybody who chooses to follow Him and embrace redemption through Christ.

And the apostle John who was one of His closest friend and follower further declared:

1 John 5: 10-13:
10The one who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself; the one who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has given concerning His Son.

11 And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son.
12 He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life. 13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.

WHat 'Son' is this? None other than Jesus Christ Whose favorite self-characterisation was 'the Son of Man' in recapitulation of the Daniel 7 prophecy.

Dan.

How do you know?

[Ibn Abu Talib]

Basically, dan knows because that is what the bible says. Talk about circularity!

[Dan Zebiri]

How desperately ignorant you are son of abu talib!

This was not just what 'the Bible Says', but was the core beliefs and teachings of the Earliest Christians of the first century A.D..

You asked 'how do I know' then you have to check with what the early followers of Jesus Christ saw and believed based on their actual interaction as eyewitnesses of Jesus Christ in His life on Earth.

All the earliest evidence points to that fact, and reputable scholars have also come to admit it.

On the other hand, Muhamad was never any eye-witness to the life or ministry of Jesus Christ, depending instead on hearsay and heretical legends about Jesus Christ that appeared centuries after Jesus' resurrection and the passing of His earliest followers!

Even Ali Dashti, a Muslim, doubts the veracity and validity of the Quran - go and read his very sound and rational work here:

http://www.amazon.com/Twenty-three-Y...7667209&sr=1-1

If a devout and learned Muslim can doubt the Quran, can you expect non-muslims to accept it or buy into its mythical polemics??

Dan.