Is Taqqiya (Islamic lying) Ethical?

[Narnian]

Taqqiya means deception. Muhammad approved it. Even the most "enlightened" muslims approve of at least in a war situation.

Ibn Shihab said he did not hear that exemption was granted in anything what the people speak as lie but in three cases: in battle, for bringing reconciliation amongst persons and the narration of the words of the husband to his wife, and the narration of the words of a wife to her husband (in a twisted form in order to bring reconciliation between them). (Sahih Muslim 6303-05; Sahih al-Bukhari 3.857)

more here:
http://www.answering-islam.org/Autho...dishonesty.htm

So, I would like to ask those muslims if they approve of Taqqiya in war situations using fake footage of actors staging innocent civilians being targetted by the 'enemy'?

Is this ethical?

Here is one example that I have seen discussed at various websites, and now mainstream newspapers. It is now almost unanimously agreed that this film was a fake. Someone described it as a film "that launched a 1000 suicide bombers". It was played during the beheading of Daniel Pearl (because he was a jew).

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,23776421-2,00.html

an 18-minute excerpt, still not the complete sequence, was shown to the court.

It revealed staged battle scenes, rehearsed ambulance evacuations - but nothing to substantiate the toxic television report.

No shots were seen coming from the Israeli position, no bullets were shown striking the boy, no blood was seen on the father’s shirt, though he was said to have cradled his eviscerated son in his arms, and the boy is seen to move, even to look conspiratorially at the television camera, when he is supposed to have been dead.

The judge found that evidence submitted by the government-owned television channel - statements provided by the cameraman - were “not perfectly credible either in form or content”.

I dont' want to debate whether you believe this footage was staged or not. I want to know IF, this and many other such films, are deceptions is this ethical?

And if so, can you prove to us that Taqqiya has improved the lot of muslims after all these years?

[barnasha]

Taqqiya means deception.

I think the rest of your post should be revisited, since you started with a misconception.

according to the dictionary deception would be al makr.

Taqiyya is, per wikipedia:

Within Shi'ite Islamic tradition,[1] the concept of Taqiyya (التقية - 'fear, guard against')[2] refers to a dispensation allowing believers to conceal their faith when under threat, persecution or compulsion.[3]
The word "al-Taqiyya" literally means: "Concealing or disguising one's beliefs, convictions, ideas, feelings, opinions, and/or strategies at a time of imminent danger, whether now or later in time, to save oneself from physical and/or mental injury." A one-word translation would be "Dissimulation." [4]

[Narnian]

Barnasha, first I would like a straight answer to my question .... then we will get into semantics.

If, as they say, this footage was staged in order to deceive the enemy, is it ethical to do this? Or would you consider it unethical? Sinful?

[barnasha]

Barnasha, first I would like a straight answer to my question .... then we will get into semantics.

If, as they say, this footage was staged in order to deceive the enemy, is it ethical to do this? Or would you consider it unethical? Sinful?

Dogs are cats. Why do dogs meow?

Before we get into semantics, give me a straight answer to that question.

If the subject is not clear, it is pointless to discuss anything.

Are you talking about lying and deception in general, or the Islamic concept of "taqiyya" which means saying you're not a muslim if someone is about to kill you for being a muslim?

[mudcake]

Taqqiya means deception. Muhammad approved it. Even the most "enlightened" muslims approve of at least in a war situation.

Ibn Shihab said he did not hear that exemption was granted in anything what the people speak as lie but in three cases: in battle, for bringing reconciliation amongst persons and the narration of the words of the husband to his wife, and the narration of the words of a wife to her husband (in a twisted form in order to bring reconciliation between them). (Sahih Muslim 6303-05; Sahih al-Bukhari 3.857)

more here:
http://www.answering-islam.org/Autho...dishonesty.htm

So, I would like to ask those muslims if they approve of Taqqiya in war situations using fake footage of actors staging innocent civilians being targetted by the 'enemy'?

Is this ethical?

Here is one example that I have seen discussed at various websites, and now mainstream newspapers. It is now almost unanimously agreed that this film was a fake. Someone described it as a film "that launched a 1000 suicide bombers". It was played during the beheading of Daniel Pearl (because he was a jew).

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,23776421-2,00.html

an 18-minute excerpt, still not the complete sequence, was shown to the court.

It revealed staged battle scenes, rehearsed ambulance evacuations - but nothing to substantiate the toxic television report.

No shots were seen coming from the Israeli position, no bullets were shown striking the boy, no blood was seen on the father’s shirt, though he was said to have cradled his eviscerated son in his arms, and the boy is seen to move, even to look conspiratorially at the television camera, when he is supposed to have been dead.

The judge found that evidence submitted by the government-owned television channel - statements provided by the cameraman - were “not perfectly credible either in form or content”.

I dont' want to debate whether you believe this footage was staged or not. I want to know IF, this and many other such films, are deceptions is this ethical?

And if so, can you prove to us that Taqqiya has improved the lot of muslims after all these years?

"I dont' want to debate whether you believe this footage was staged or not. I want to know IF, this and many other such films, are deceptions is this ethical?"

Lying and use deception in war to attack or counter attack an enemy is a part of the war statagem exemplified throughour war history. George Bush lied about the 'weapons of mass destructions' that saddam supposedly had to justify a war that has killed millions of people.That was very unethical of George.May Allah guide him to Islam.Ameeen

From an Islamic perspective, the permission and exception in lying in the context of war relates to lying to the enemy as part of the war stratagem to safeguard the Muslim army and its people/society from harm or genocide , etc .....

Your case in point does not represent or have any similtude with the islamic context of lying as an exception within the context of war.

In regards to your comment about the footage being staged to entice or " launched1000 suicide bombers" under false pretenses, IF this was staged, this mode of deception is unethical since the footage deceived both both the enemy and the Muslims. If this footage was staged with false pretenses and/or the intent of using deception to lie and deceive and falsely stir the emotions of the muslims with the evil motive or intent to create a counter respond or attack through the launched of 1000 suicide bombers based on a myth and a lie is unethical. Using deception and lying to Muslims with the hope of deceitfully enticing Muslims to counter attack an enemy, whether the enemy is innocent or not ,under false pretenses and myth is a sin.

Your commenst remind me of an incident involving my cousin.

My cousin had a friend that was smacked and bulled by a boy at school almost every day

To take revenge for his friend, my cousin who had an older brother told a lie and said the the school bully had bashed him.

So the older brother went to school and gave the school bully a broken nose.

Although the school bully may have deserved it, the older brother had no right to smack the boy over a lie....



‘Abd-Allaah ibn Mas’ood (may Allaah be pleased with him) said:

“The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: ‘You must be truthful, for truthfulness leads to righteousness and righteousness leads to Paradise. A man will keep speaking the truth and striving to speak the truth until he will be recorded with Allah as a speaker of the truth. Beware of telling lies, for lying leads to immorality and immorality leads to Hellfire. A man will keep telling lies and striving to tell lies until he is recorded with Allah as a liar.” (Reported by Muslim, 4721)

This hadeeth indicates that truthfulness leads to righteousness, an all-embracing concept that includes all kinds of goodness and different kinds of righteous deeds. Immorality is basically an inclination towards deviation from the truth, and the immoral person is one who is inclined to turn away from the path of guidance. Hence immorality and righteousness are entirely opposed.

[Raphael]

supposedly had to justify a war that has killed millions of people.

I don't mind you picking on Bush, but I wasn't under the impression that the figures had reached "millions" and the majority of the violence seems to be between Shiite and Sunni which I think the leaders of the individual sects should shoulder as much blame for it as anyone else.

[mudcake]

I don't mind you picking on Bush, but I wasn't under the impression that the figures had reached "millions" and the majority of the violence seems to be between Shiite and Sunni which I think the leaders of the individual sects should shoulder as much blame for it as anyone else.

i was being sarcastic there LOL.. 100,000's is more accurate..... some of the violence and fitna between Shiite and Sunni muslims in Iraq is stimulated by the deceptions and lies created by the West (Bush's crew) with the hope that Muslims will annilhate each other.

[Raphael]

i was being sarcastic there LOL.. 100,000's is more accurate..... some of the violence and fitna between Shiite and Sunni muslims in Iraq is stimulated by the deceptions and lies created by the West (Bush's crew) with the hope that Muslims will annilhate each other.

My information for that came from a Sunni Muslim in South Africa who was very very anti-Shiite.

[Dan Zebiri]

Is the teaching of Taqiyya surprising at all??

Why should it be?!

When Islam and the Quran calls Allah - their God, as the Greatest Deceiver or the Greatest LIAR! See Sura 3/54...

This is one of the islamic God's name! If that is what he is, than can his followers (muslims) rise any higher above that??

Dan.

[JSDileo]

i was being sarcastic there LOL.. 100,000's is more accurate..... some of the violence and fitna between Shiite and Sunni muslims in Iraq is stimulated by the deceptions and lies created by the West (Bush's crew) with the hope that Muslims will annilhate each other.

Yeah, because Bush likes making himself look like an idiot with no control of the country he invaded; he likes knowing that he currently has a 27% approval rating. He likes the more and more universal cries that his invasion was a failure and that we should have left it alone and that he is an idiot incapable of doing things correctly.

Give me a break.

~JSDileo

[mudcake]

Yeah, because Bush likes making himself look like an idiot with no control of the country he invaded; he likes knowing that he currently has a 27% approval rating. He likes the more and more universal cries that his invasion was a failure and that we should have left it alone and that he is an idiot incapable of doing things correctly.

Give me a break.

~JSDileo

LOl... Crusader Bush IS an idiot.... he totally miscalculated his hope to take control of iraq. He though with all his might and power and 'God' on his side he will destroy the Muslims and control Iraq LOL.... and turn it into a form of western 'democracy' LOL... consequently America is receiving the wrath and punishment they deserve and consequently (a) bush is making himself look like an idiot, (b)and consequently now has 27% approval rating, (c) consequently more and more universal cries that his invasion was a failure and we should have left it alone.

Hence, Bush is an idiot incapable of doing things correctly.... He had it all wrong from the beginning...LOL.....

[Narnian]

this was staged, this mode of deception is unethical since the footage deceived both both the enemy and the Muslims

Mudcake, as far as logics go, this is an excellent answer. Thank you.

Your commenst remind me of an incident involving my cousin.
My cousin had a friend that was smacked and bulled by a boy at school almost every day
To take revenge for his friend, my cousin who had an older brother told a lie and said the the school bully had bashed him.
So the older brother went to school and gave the school bully a broken nose.
Although the school bully may have deserved it, the older brother had no right to smack the boy over a lie....

Your story reminds us that these sorts of tactics belong to school-aged children, not adults.

Your hadith about truthfulness may be noble, but you still have this widely accepted hadith about lying, and the subjective nature of the exemptions leaves the door wide open for lying. I was an "insider" to muslim culture for 9 years - long enough to know how much lying went on. When I returned to my own culture, I remained suspiscious of anything anyone said, because how could I tell if someone was telling a lie or not? After a while I remembered once again that western culture frowns greatly upon any sort of lying.

[Texatru]

Barnasha, first I would like a straight answer to my question .... then we will get into semantics.

If, as they say, this footage was staged in order to deceive the enemy, is it ethical to do this? Or would you consider it unethical? Sinful?

Ethics are relative to the view of the believer.

Most Christians will believe it is unethical since its not a Christian influenced ethic.

The Muslim will believe it is ethical since it is taught in the Koran.

[barnasha]

Ethics are relative to the view of the believer.

Most Christians will believe it is unethical since its not a Christian influenced ethic.

The Muslim will believe it is ethical since it is taught in the Koran.

I dont think there is anything (in Christian culture) against saying you are not a Christian if it spares you a bullet to the head.

Per the bible, the teachings of Christ is about what is inside, not what is outside.

Then again the Christians of old were the ones who willingly were thrown to the lions or burned at the stake by the Romans.

But that wasn't a requirement of their faith.

Anyway, you just said ethics were relative, then proceeded to make a generalization about both Christians and Muslims. why?

[Texatru]

Anyway, you just said ethics were relative, then proceeded to make a generalization about both Christians and Muslims. why?

Ethics can still be relative in the group sense, don't you think? Especially in this case where a Christian asks if a particular Muslim belief is "ethical."