The fruits of the Republican spirit

[seer]

One of the venture capitalists responsible for Amazon, a kajillionaire, is crazy famous for advocating higher taxes for people like himself because not only is it good for mainstream america its actually good for business. Is he not a democrat?

So why doesn't he just pay more in taxes? He is perfectly free to give more than he owes. And I bet he takes every deduction possible.

[Bill the Cat]

Why does the existence of wealthy democrats somehow invalidate the differences between the parties?

It exposes the hypocrisy of those Democrats that speak one way and live another. It also shows that not everyone lives by their party's platforms, and many of the false charges thrown at "Republicans" are things not in the party platform.

One of the venture capitalists responsible for Amazon, a kajillionaire, is crazy famous for advocating higher taxes for people like himself because not only is it good for mainstream america its actually good for business. Is he not a democrat?

I'd rather he actually pay his workers better and not work the warehouse workers like dogs. I have a major fulfillment center within 3 miles of my house, and many of the teenagers that visit my kids have worked there. They report atrocious working conditions and unrealistic expectations and quotas that are directly tied to pay. It's considered one of the worst places to work in the county, and their retention rate is near the bottom. So, his offer to have his business pay more taxes is unimpressive to me.

Either way, the actual policies put forth clearly demonstrate which party is actually trying to help everyone, including our least fortunate,

Not "including" the least fortunate. They only want to help the less fortunate remain dependent on them so as to maintain power. They are the abusive spouse who has given the abused just enough to develop Stockholm Syndrome.

and those policies aren't found in Republican hands too often

Because the Republican platform emphasizes the value of an individual's hard work and keeping what you earn. Allowing each individual the opportunity to be as generous as they choose, within their means. You know... the things this country was founded on.

[MaxVel]

Why does the existence of wealthy democrats somehow invalidate the differences between the parties?

One of the venture capitalists responsible for Amazon, a kajillionaire, is crazy famous for advocating higher taxes for people like himself because not only is it good for mainstream america its actually good for business. Is he not a democrat?

Either way, the actual policies put forth clearly demonstrate which party is actually trying to help everyone, including our least fortunate, and those policies aren't found in Republican hands too often

You're just begging the question as to just what policies would actually result in better long-term outcomes for society as a whole.

I doubt many Republicans advocate the policies they do because they think those policies would harm or have no effect on the poor, of course the same could be said for many Democrats. But there's a fundamental disagreement on just how one should best help someone in need; and on what kind and how big of a government is best. Questioning the motivation of those who advocate policies you disagree with is part and parcel of politics, but it's also logically weak and irrelevant to the real question: What will actually work?

[Jaecp]

You're just begging the question as to just what policies would actually result in better long-term outcomes for society as a whole.

I doubt many Republicans advocate the policies they do because they think those policies would harm or have no effect on the poor, of course the same could be said for many Democrats. But there's a fundamental disagreement on just how one should best help someone in need; and on what kind and how big of a government is best. Questioning the motivation of those who advocate policies you disagree with is part and parcel of politics, but it's also logically weak and irrelevant to the real question: What will actually work?

While I completely agree with you in theory, the actual bills that the parties offer, the legislation itself isn't equal. Also, the Republican party is the party that cuts food stamps, wants to switch us to privately ran prisons and number of other issues that really hurt low socioeconomic folks. It's not just that Republicans want to argue that their cutting of taxes to the rich will help poor people (ha), but they are actively doing things that hurt them.

[MaxVel]

While I completely agree with you in theory, the actual bills that the parties offer, the legislation itself isn't equal. Also, the Republican party is the party that cuts food stamps, wants to switch us to privately ran prisons and number of other issues that really hurt low socioeconomic folks. It's not just that Republicans want to argue that their cutting of taxes to the rich will help poor people (ha), but they are actively doing things that hurt them.

And the Republicans agree that their policies are hurting poor people?? I'm sure they have reasons (or rationalisations) that they think make their policies better overall. You're still just assuming one side is right and the other wrong...

[Cow Poke]

One of the venture capitalists responsible for Amazon, a kajillionaire, is crazy famous for advocating higher taxes for people like himself because not only is it good for mainstream america its actually good for business.

Ah, this reminds me of when JimL declared "there's no mechanism for voluntarily giving more than you are taxed", which, of course, is simply not true.

There is NOTHING preventing this person from giving half -- heck, 90% -- of his money to the US treasury.

[stfoskey15]

Ah, this reminds me of when JimL declared "there's no mechanism for voluntarily giving more than you are taxed", which, of course, is simply not true.

There is NOTHING preventing this person from giving half -- heck, 90% -- of his money to the US treasury.

Can you just write them a check? Do they accept donations?
I have some money I'm thinking about giving away, maybe I should give it to NASA.

[Cow Poke]

Can you just write them a check? Do they accept donations?
I have some money I'm thinking about giving away, maybe I should give it to NASA.

As a matter of fact, You CAN!!!!

Source: US Treasury

How do I make a contribution to the U.S. government?


Citizens who wish to make a general donation to the U.S. government may send contributions to a specific account called "Gifts to the United States." This account was established in 1843 to accept gifts, such as bequests, from individuals wishing to express their patriotism to the United States. Money deposited into this account is for general use by the federal government and can be available for budget needs. These contributions are considered an unconditional gift to the government. Financial gifts can be made by check or money order payable to the United States Treasury and mailed to the address below.

Gifts to the United States
U.S. Department of the Treasury
Credit Accounting Branch
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Hyattsville, MD 20782

© Copyright Original Source

Anything else?

[seanD]

Why does the existence of wealthy democrats somehow invalidate the differences between the parties?

One of the venture capitalists responsible for Amazon, a kajillionaire, is crazy famous for advocating higher taxes for people like himself because not only is it good for mainstream america its actually good for business. Is he not a democrat?

Either way, the actual policies put forth clearly demonstrate which party is actually trying to help everyone, including our least fortunate, and those policies aren't found in Republican hands too often

Since there are ways you can voluntarily give to both the poor and the government (which I'm sure has been pointed out to you here already), there are two reasons why "kajillionaires" like him spout that BS. One -- it's just good PR for his business; and two -- kajillionares like him have many tax havens and ways to skirt the type of tax regulation he advocates for. Plus, it's good for him as a businessman when government levies tax burdens he can avoid because it knocks out his business competition (usually smaller businesses that are more in number), which gives him more leverage to monopolize his business ventures that much more.

[Jaecp]

And the Republicans agree that their policies are hurting poor people?? I'm sure they have reasons (or rationalisations) that they think make their policies better overall. You're still just assuming one side is right and the other wrong...

Why would Republicans have to admit their policies hurt poor people for that to be true? I'm not assuming the policies are better. My job is in electoral politics. This is what I do.

[Jaecp]

Since there are ways you can voluntarily give to both the poor and the government (which I'm sure has been pointed out to you here already), there are two reasons why "kajillionaires" like him spout that BS. One -- it's just good PR for his business; and two -- kajillionares like him have many tax havens and ways to skirt the type of tax regulation he advocates for. Plus, it's good for him as a businessman when government levies tax burdens he can avoid because it knocks out his business competition (usually smaller businesses that are more in number), which gives him more leverage to monopolize his business ventures that much more.

And I'm sure you know that one guy giving more money to the government isn't what solves tax shortfalls created by overly generous tax cuts that were pushed under the Bush presidency. Every discussion on whether the top tax rates should be raised gets people saying that but it doesn't address the systemic issue.

The guy is a venture capitalist. His existing competition are mostly crazy rich. This isn't a situation like what you describe. In theory, sure, but not in this field. He really is that rare rich guy who is willing to call his own classes talking points about money nonsense when they are

[seanD]

And I'm sure you know that one guy giving more money to the government isn't what solves tax shortfalls created by overly generous tax cuts that were pushed under the Bush presidency. Every discussion on whether the top tax rates should be raised gets people saying that but it doesn't address the systemic issue.

The guy is a venture capitalist. His existing competition are mostly crazy rich. This isn't a situation like what you describe. In theory, sure, but not in this field. He really is that rare rich guy who is willing to call his own classes talking points about money nonsense when they are

Sorry, I don't buy it. One wealthy dude giving money to government doesn't help, but the general public is not even aware this option exists. He should shine a light on the fact that such a voluntary system does exist. Tax regulation is not necessary when the system is already in place for these wealthy dudes willing to give their portion to government to do so, even in the public eye if they want. That the general public doesn't know this works in his favor, because he can continue to feign like he's a good democrat willing to sacrifice a portion of his wealth he knows he'll never have to give in reality. It's a sham, dude, and it's an obvious one. Like I said, it's good PR for them to spout that nonsense, especially if they're a democrat. And no matter what tax regulation they dream up, wealthy elites will always have ways to skirt it. That's just the way the system is designed.

[Jaecp]

Sorry, I don't buy it. One wealthy dude giving money to government doesn't help, but the general public is not even aware this option exists. He should shine a light on the fact that such a voluntary system does exist. Tax regulation is not necessary when the system is already in place for these wealthy dudes willing to give their portion to government to do so, even in the public eye if they want. That the general public doesn't know this works in his favor, because he can continue to feign like he's a good democrat willing to sacrifice a portion of his wealth he knows he'll never have to give in reality. It's a sham, dude, and it's an obvious one. Like I said, it's good PR for them to spout that nonsense, especially if they're a democrat. And no matter what tax regulation they dream up, wealthy elites will always have ways to skirt it. That's just the way the system is designed.

Yeah, no, relying on voluntary giving over compulsory taxation was a key reason for getting rid of the articles of confederation for the constitution. It simply doesn't work and neither does your claim here.

You might believe nothing can get better, but it's not a lost cause. The entire time I've been talking you haven't even asked who I'm talking about! This shows you've got an article of faith, at best. At worst?

And so what if the rich have ways to hide their cash? We can go after that. Even if we don't, higher top marginal rates still means that they can hide less money. It's about increasing the real tax rate on people who have lobbied to rob the system. Is that not something you think of as a decent goal regardless of its difficulty?

[seanD]

Yeah, no, relying on voluntary giving over compulsory taxation was a key reason for getting rid of the articles of confederation for the constitution. It simply doesn't work and neither does your claim here.

You might believe nothing can get better, but it's not a lost cause. The entire time I've been talking you haven't even asked who I'm talking about! This shows you've got an article of faith, at best. At worst?

And so what if the rich have ways to hide their cash? We can go after that. Even if we don't, higher top marginal rates still means that they can hide less money. It's about increasing the real tax rate on people who have lobbied to rob the system. Is that not something you think of as a decent goal regardless of its difficulty?

There might be ways to go after it. There might be ways to stop a transnational corporation like GE or a mega billionaire hedge fund artist like Soros from not having to pay anything in taxes. But it won't happen. The system is designed for it not to. Lobbyist rule the system and dictate how the laws are implemented in their favor. Congress, both Dems and Reps, yield to this system because they're enriched from it themselves. So, when these mega wealthy elites spout on about paying taxes, along with the Dems, it's because they know this and know it works in their favor to play the martyr. At least the Reps for the most part don't feign like something they're not in order to get the downtrodden masses to vote for them.

[Jaecp]

There might be ways to go after it. There might be ways to stop a transnational corporation like GE or a mega billionaire hedge fund artist like Soros from not having to pay anything in taxes. But it won't happen. The system is designed for it not to. Lobbyist rule the system and dictate how the laws are implemented in their favor. Congress, both Dems and Reps, yield to this system because they're enriched from it themselves. So, when these mega wealthy elites spout on about paying taxes, along with the Dems, it's because they know this and know it works in their favor to play the martyr. At least the Reps for the most part don't feign like something they're not in order to get the downtrodden masses to vote for them.

And why does it have to be feigned? You're being over the top in your negativity. I get that it won't get challenged too frequently here, but you're going to do more than assert that everyone is like that when I work with these people, see the goals they work towards and the fruits of their labor in my own state.

There are good people in office on occasion Sean and if those reforms we agree on are to pass get off your ass, plug yourself into to the local political establishment and knock on some doors. Preferably for a Democrat, but I don't actually care, just find a nice Libertarian if you gotta. The problems we face are not insurmountable. We simply need to do the work