Christian history

[he-man]

It's a Presbyterian seminary not Roman Catholic. Their doctrine is reformed and apart from the infant baptism issue, they are pretty much in line with reformed baptists and reformation theology. I have done the History course and it's pretty 'matter of fact' with very little if any doctrinal discussion.

Exactly, that is what I meant !

Ac 17:24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;

[timspong]

Exactly, that is what I meant !

Ac 17:24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;

Discernment is our primary defense against false teaching and it is the one skill I have tried to hone more than any other and pray to God that He gives me a gift in that area.

However, having said all that, I think you may have your discernment filter turned up a little too high. With a certain level of discernment, you can glean Gods truth from just about anywhere.

I am not of that denomination, BTW what exactly is your issue with Presbyterians? is it ecclesiological or soteriological. i.e. is it how they do church or what doctrine they believe?

As a denomination, they have always been pretty low on the condemnation radar.

[he-man]

Discernment is our primary defense against false teaching and it is the one skill I have tried to hone more than any other and pray to God that He gives me a gift in that area.

However, having said all that, I think you may have your discernment filter turned up a little too high. With a certain level of discernment, you can glean Gods truth from just about anywhere.

I am not of that denomination, BTW what exactly is your issue with Presbyterians? is it ecclesiological or soteriological. i.e. is it how they do church or what doctrine they believe?

As a denomination, they have always been pretty low on the condemnation radar.

The fact that God does not have a literal building but only resides within you, displays the ignorance of people who apply the word "Church", as such.

Mt 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

Most of the gatherings of Christ took place OUTSIDE, in the open. Christ did not recommend or build a Building, Tent, or otherwise, to shelter people from the rain.

Ecclesia is simply a gathering of two or more people! So, to build a Church Building with Brick and Stone, or wood is contrary to the word of Christ, and is an Idol of profanity to OUR God.

Ac 17:24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;

b]dwelleth not in temples made with hands[/B]; Is that NOT Clear enough?

[hedrick]

While God doesn't live within church buildings the people who serve him often find buildings useful as places to meet and from which to base their service.

Anything can become an idol, whether a church building or whatever else you use instead of church buildings.

[he-man]

While God doesn't live within church buildings the people who serve him often find buildings useful as places to meet and from which to base their service.

Anything can become an idol, whether a church building or whatever else you use instead of church buildings.

And they took him, and brought him unto Areopagus, saying, May we know what this new doctrine, whereof thou speakest, is? For thou bringest certain strange things to our ears: we would know therefore what these things mean.

Then Paul stood in the midst of Mars’ hill, and said, Ye men of Athens, I perceive that in all things ye are too superstitious. God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;Acts 17:19,20,22, 24

Great! Where do you see a command to build a Church of Stone made by Man? So why waste money with decorations of Crosses, painted windows, and only use a 5 dollar or 5 million dollar building only part time? Is that not a little to much to bear?

2 Cor 11:13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. Mt 24:50) The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of, (51) And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Paul told them, "If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister; Col 1:23

Paul said the gospel was preached to everyone, so why do you build churches to try to do what Paul finished? Where do you see a command to build a Church of Stone made by Man?

When Jesus uttered " Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves," He was probably thinking of extortioners (false ministers), cruel, greedy, rapacious, destructive men, who would subtly instill themselves into the church by appearing to be sheep within the sheepfold. Extortioners who would entice you to part with your money to build a false church of stone when all you need is what Jesus said, "...I will build another made without hands." Mt 14:58

Isa 56:11 Yea, they are greedy dogs which can never have enough, and they are shepherds that cannot understand: they all look to their own way, every one for his gain, from his quarter.

Ac 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.

Mt 5:3) Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon Me, because the LORD has anointed Me to proclaim good tidings to the poor; (Isaiah 61:1)
Is being captive to sin and wealth or addicted to drugs, fashion, or the vain praise of men building "Churches" that reach to the Sky, restricted by economic boundaries?

Jesus' words cover the whole span of mankind's circumstances because anyone without a right and true relationship with God can fall within His description. "Poor," as Jesus uses it, truly relates to a spiritual quality.

Notice the spiritual things David requested—things only God could supply—to fill his needs in Psalm 51:1-2, 6-12, 14...

To be poor in spirit is to acknowledge honestly and with understanding our spiritual poverty—indeed our spiritual bankruptcy—before God. He allows by His grace through the blood of Jesus Christ, shed to cover our sins, justifying us and providing us with access into His presence.

[he-man]

And they took him, and brought him unto Areopagus, saying, May we know what this new doctrine, whereof thou speakest, is? For thou bringest certain strange things to our ears: we would know therefore what these things mean.

Then Paul stood in the midst of Mars’ hill, and said, Ye men of Athens, I perceive that in all things ye are too superstitious. God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;Acts 17:19,20,22, 24

Great! Where do you see a command to build a Church of Stone made by Man? So why waste money with decorations of Crosses, painted windows, and only use a 5 dollar or 5 million dollar building only part time? Is that not a little to much to bear?

2 Cor 11:13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. Mt 24:50) The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of, (51) And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Paul told them, "If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister; Col 1:23

Paul said the gospel was preached to everyone, so why do you build churches to try to do what Paul finished? Where do you see a command to build a Church of Stone made by Man?

When Jesus uttered " Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves," He was probably thinking of extortioners (false ministers), cruel, greedy, rapacious, destructive men, who would subtly instill themselves into the church by appearing to be sheep within the sheepfold. Extortioners who would entice you to part with your money to build a false church of stone when all you need is what Jesus said, "...I will build another made without hands." Mt 14:58

Isa 56:11 Yea, they are greedy dogs which can never have enough, and they are shepherds that cannot understand: they all look to their own way, every one for his gain, from his quarter.

Ac 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.

Mt 5:3) Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon Me, because the LORD has anointed Me to proclaim good tidings to the poor; (Isaiah 61:1)
Is being captive to sin and wealth or addicted to drugs, fashion, or the vain praise of men building "Churches" that reach to the Sky, restricted by economic boundaries?

Jesus' words cover the whole span of mankind's circumstances because anyone without a right and true relationship with God can fall within His description. "Poor," as Jesus uses it, truly relates to a spiritual quality.

Notice the spiritual things David requested—things only God could supply—to fill his needs in Psalm 51:1-2, 6-12, 14...

To be poor in spirit is to acknowledge honestly and with understanding our spiritual poverty—indeed our spiritual bankruptcy—before God. He allows by His grace through the blood of Jesus Christ, shed to cover our sins, justifying us and providing us with access into His presence.

Since you have no answer, I presume you call your buildings made with hands, "The Church of God"; House of God; House of Prayer; or House of WORSHIP?

Mr 11:17 And he taught, saying unto them, Is it not written, My house shall be called of all nations the house of prayer? but you despoil its den. Yea, they are greedy dogs which can never have enough, and they are shepherds that cannot understand: they all look to their own way, every one for his gain, from his quarter.But draw near hither, ye sons of the sorceress, the seed of the adulterer and the whore.
Against whom do ye sport yourselves? against whom make ye a wide mouth, and draw out the tongue? are ye not children of transgression, a seed of falsehood,
Isa 56:11; 57:3,4

[Adrift]

Moderated By: Adrift

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[One Bad Pig]

Church History in Plain Language by Bruce L. Shelley

For an Eastern perspective, The Orthodox Church by Timothy Ware (also available in print).

[he-man]

Church History in Plain Language by Bruce L. Shelley

For an Eastern perspective, The Orthodox Church by Timothy Ware (also available in print).

http://www.meta-religion.com/World_R...ory/index.html

[One Bad Pig]

http://www.meta-religion.com/World_R...ory/index.html

The Book of Jasher as history? Oh, and the site could use someone who is competent to code in HTML.

[he-man]

The Book of Jasher as history? Oh, and the site could use someone who is competent to code in HTML.

Moved thread to a more appropriate section of the forum. This will also allow a broader audience the chance to reply to the OP.

[Jluk]

I agree with the gentleman named he-man. If you want to know the histiory or the meat of it, read Acts.

[he-man]

And they took him, and brought him unto Areopagus, saying, May we know what this new doctrine, whereof thou speakest, is? For thou bringest certain strange things to our ears: we would know therefore what these things mean.

Then Paul stood in the midst of Mars’ hill, and said, Ye men of Athens, I perceive that in all things ye are too superstitious. God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;Acts 17:19,20,22, 24

Great! Where do you see a command to build a Church of Stone made by Man? So why waste money with decorations of Crosses, painted windows, and only use a 5 dollar or 5 million dollar building only part time? Is that not a little to much to bear?

2 Cor 11:13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. Mt 24:50) The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of, (51) And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Paul told them, "If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister; Col 1:23

Paul said the gospel was preached to everyone, so why do you build churches to try to do what Paul finished? Where do you see a command to build a Church of Stone made by Man?

When Jesus uttered " Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves," He was probably thinking of extortioners (false ministers), cruel, greedy, rapacious, destructive men, who would subtly instill themselves into the church by appearing to be sheep within the sheepfold. Extortioners who would entice you to part with your money to build a false church of stone when all you need is what Jesus said, "...I will build another made without hands." Mt 14:58

Isa 56:11 Yea, they are greedy dogs which can never have enough, and they are shepherds that cannot understand: they all look to their own way, every one for his gain, from his quarter.

Ac 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.

Mt 5:3) Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon Me, because the LORD has anointed Me to proclaim good tidings to the poor; (Isaiah 61:1)
Is being captive to sin and wealth or addicted to drugs, fashion, or the vain praise of men building "Churches" that reach to the Sky, restricted by economic boundaries?

Jesus' words cover the whole span of mankind's circumstances because anyone without a right and true relationship with God can fall within His description. "Poor," as Jesus uses it, truly relates to a spiritual quality.

Notice the spiritual things David requested—things only God could supply—to fill his needs in Psalm 51:1-2, 6-12, 14...

To be poor in spirit is to acknowledge honestly and with understanding our spiritual poverty—indeed our spiritual bankruptcy—before God. He allows by His grace through the blood of Jesus Christ, shed to cover our sins, justifying us and providing us with access into His presence.

Since you have no answer, I presume you call your buildings made with hands, "The Church of God"; House of God; House of Prayer; or House of WORSHIP? Since Jesus said, "...I will build another made without hands." Mt 14:58

Mr 11:17 And he taught, saying unto them, Is it not written, My house shall be called of all nations the house of prayer? but you despoil its den. Yea, they are greedy dogs which can never have enough, and they are shepherds that cannot understand: they all look to their own way, every one for his gain, from his quarter.But draw near hither, ye sons of the sorceress, the seed of the adulterer and the whore.
Against whom do ye sport yourselves? against whom make ye a wide mouth, and draw out the tongue? are ye not children of transgression, a seed of falsehood,
Isa 56:11; 57:3,4

[One Bad Pig]

You presume overmuch. You're having so much fun burning your strawman, I hate to interrupt you.

[he-man]

You presume overmuch. You're having so much fun burning your strawman, I hate to interrupt you.

And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for you are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 2Co 6:16

Revelation 18:9-11 adds to the description of the church, as it describes a huge, worldwide network of propaganda for merchandising and manufacturing their entity and that men weep over when destroyed.

Religious entities manufacture and merchandise their religion via TV and distribute their propaganda to beg for money. This is vital to understand because Revelation 18 must coordinate with the identity of the Woman in Revelation 17. Thus, Revelation 18, describing what churches involve themselves in, provides another major reason why the Woman is the church.