Weird Quantum effects confirmed in new study.

[JimL]

I thought that perhaps the more scientifically inclined here might find this interesting.

phys.org/news/2016-07-weird-quantum-effects-hundreds-miles.html

[shunyadragon]

I thought that perhaps the more scientifically inclined here might find this interesting.

phys.org/news/2016-07-weird-quantum-effects-hundreds-miles.html

This evidence supports the notion that the human view of reality has logical contradictions.

[seer]

This evidence supports the notion that the human view of reality has logical contradictions.

But like you already said Shuny true/actual contradictions don't exist.

[shunyadragon]

But like you already said Shuny true/actual contradictions don't exist.

You are misrepresenting me as usual. I said, contradictions exist from the human perspective.

[seer]

You are misrepresenting me as usual. I said, contradictions exist from the human perspective.

Yes, but the human human perspective is wrong. No true contradictions exist - correct?

[shunyadragon]

Yes, but the human human perspective is wrong. No true contradictions exist - correct?

I have been clear, repeating this many times. First, the human perspective is not necessarily wrong, it is imperfect. Contradictions exist from the human perspective regardless of what we claim to believe is true.

IF God exists, there are no contradictions from God's perspective. IF God(s) do not exist, there are no contradictions from the ultimate perspective of Natural Law and the nature of our physical existence.

For the hundredth time; Is there anything here you do not understand?

[seer]

I have been clear, repeating this many times. First, the human perspective is not necessarily wrong, it is imperfect. Contradictions exist from the human perspective regardless of what we claim to believe is true.

IF God exists, there are no contradictions from God's perspective. IF God(s) do not exist, there are no contradictions from the ultimate perspective of Natural Law and the nature of our physical existence.

For the hundredth time; Is there anything here you do not understand?

Right, true contradiction can not exist, though it may "seem" that way to us.

[Sparko]

So if things like quantum uncertainty actually do happen in the macro world, why don't we actually see evidence of it in our everyday life? Like, nobody should ever die of cancer unless a doctor looks and finds cancer. Otherwise it would be in a state of superposition, like Schrodinger's Cat, neither actually existing or not existing. Yet people die of undiagnosed cancer all the time.

[shunyadragon]

So if things like quantum uncertainty actually do happen in the macro world, why don't we actually see evidence of it in our everyday life? Like, nobody should ever die of cancer unless a doctor looks and finds cancer. Otherwise it would be in a state of superposition, like Schrodinger's Cat, neither actually existing or not existing. Yet people die of undiagnosed cancer all the time.

Who said things like Quantum uncertainty actually happen in the macro world? As far as I am concerned so far in this thread that issue has not been addressed, but . . .

Source: http://www.yalescientific.org/2010/09/quantum-mechanics-on-the-macroscale/

Tackling Curious Quantum Properties

Since Max Planck proposed the quantum theory, the field of quantum mechanics has been met with a plethora of responses—disbelief, intrigue, skepticism. What makes quantum mechanics clash with classical physics, however, also makes quantum mechanics counterintuitive. How can light be both a particle and a wave? How can objects be in two places at once? While many believe that quantum mechanics is only a theory for describing things on the microscale, Yale Professor of Physics Jack Harris has shown that quantum mechanical theory can apply to larger objects as well.

Named one of the “Best Brains under 40” by Discover Magazine in 2008, Professor Harris has been marked as a distinguished, promising researcher in the field of quantum physics. In July 2009, Harris received the Young Faculty Award from the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA) for his work on photons that could potentially advance telecommunications and unbreakable encryption applications for the Department of Defense. In November 2009, he also won the Arthur Greer Memorial Prize for Outstanding Scholarly Publication or Research, an award granted to a junior faculty member in the sciences. All of these accolades attest to the significance of Harris’ dedicated, groundbreaking research in quantum mechanics.

© Copyright Original Source

[Sparko]

Who said things like Quantum uncertainty actually happen in the macro world? As far as I am concerned so far in this thread that issue has not been addressed, but . . .

Then maybe you should actually READ the article linked in the OP instead of just posting for no reason?

The physicist Erwin Schrödinger highlighted some strange consequences of the idea of superposition more than 80 years ago, with a thought experiment that posed that a cat trapped in a box with a radioactive source could be in a superposition state, considered both alive and dead, according to the laws of quantum mechanics. Since then, scientists have proven that particles can indeed be in superposition, at quantum, subatomic scales. But whether such weird phenomena can be observed in our larger, everyday world is an open, actively pursued question.

Now, MIT physicists have found that subatomic particles called neutrinos can be in superposition, without individual identities, when traveling hundreds of miles. Their results, to be published later this month in Physical Review Letters, represent the longest distance over which quantum mechanics has been tested to date.

..."What's fascinating is, many of us tend to think of quantum mechanics applying on small scales," says David Kaiser, the Germeshausen Professor of the History of Science and professor of physics at MIT. "But it turns out that we can't escape quantum mechanics, even when we describe processes that happen over large distances. We can't stop our quantum mechanical description even when these things leave one state and enter another, traveling hundreds of miles. I think that's breathtaking."


Read more at: http://phys.org/news/2016-07-weird-q...miles.html#jCp

[shunyadragon]

Then maybe you should actually READ the article linked in the OP instead of just posting for no reason?

The physicist Erwin Schrödinger highlighted some strange consequences of the idea of superposition more than 80 years ago, with a thought experiment that posed that a cat trapped in a box with a radioactive source could be in a superposition state, considered both alive and dead, according to the laws of quantum mechanics. Since then, scientists have proven that particles can indeed be in superposition, at quantum, subatomic scales. But whether such weird phenomena can be observed in our larger, everyday world is an open, actively pursued question.

Now, MIT physicists have found that subatomic particles called neutrinos can be in superposition, without individual identities, when traveling hundreds of miles. Their results, to be published later this month in Physical Review Letters, represent the longest distance over which quantum mechanics has been tested to date.

..."What's fascinating is, many of us tend to think of quantum mechanics applying on small scales," says David Kaiser, the Germeshausen Professor of the History of Science and professor of physics at MIT. "But it turns out that we can't escape quantum mechanics, even when we describe processes that happen over large distances. We can't stop our quantum mechanical description even when these things leave one state and enter another, traveling hundreds of miles. I think that's breathtaking."


Read more at: http://phys.org/news/2016-07-weird-q...miles.html#jCp

My understanding of the article is that it was observed to happen over long distances, but still on the Quantum scale. If it is considered by this research that Quantum effects occur in the macro world ok, but that does not change things. Contradictions can be observed by humans in both the Quantum level and in the macro world.

[JimL]

So if things like quantum uncertainty actually do happen in the macro world, why don't we actually see evidence of it in our everyday life? Like, nobody should ever die of cancer unless a doctor looks and finds cancer. Otherwise it would be in a state of superposition, like Schrodinger's Cat, neither actually existing or not existing. Yet people die of undiagnosed cancer all the time.

Decohehence. As far as has been observed to date quantum effects only take place on microscopic scales, not macroscopic. In other words stand alone microscopic particles, like the nuetrino in this case, can be in a superposition, but macroscopic things, bodies made of many particles can not. At least they can't be observed as such. I don't fully understand this stuff, but I think that is what Schrodingers theory was about, that things, even macroscopic things like cats, are in superposition, but we only observe one position when we look. Thats where the many worlds theory of Everett came in.

[shunyadragon]

Decohehence. As far as has been observed to date quantum effects only take place on microscopic scales, not macroscopic. In other words stand alone microscopic particles, like the nuetrino in this case, can be in a superposition, but macroscopic things, bodies made of many particles can not. At least they can't be observed as such. I don't fully understand this stuff, but I think that is what Schrodingers theory was about, that things, even macroscopic things like cats, are in superposition, but we only observe one position when we look. That's where the many worlds theory of Everett came in.

OK!

[TheLurch]

Let me give a shot at explaining this.

As Sparko originally noted, observing a quantum system causes it to adopt a well defined state, rather than remaining in a superposition of two or more. But "observation" is something different from our human-perspective definition, where it just means "looking at something". In the quantum world, most interactions with the environment end up being the equivalent of an observation - so if a particle interacts with the environment, it will no longer be in a superposition state.

This is why macroscopic objects never end up in a quantum state - they're always interacting with their environment.

Now, what about the neutrinos? One of the many quirky properties of these particular particles is that they rarely interact with the environment. The figure i recall is that a light-year of lead shielding would only block about 20 percent of the neutrinos going through it. As a result, they should be able to stay in a quantum state for much longer than any other particle. In this case, they state in a superposition from the site of their production (Fermilab) to the location where they hit the detector.

Incidentally, the neutrinos are just as uninterested in interacting with the detector as they are with anything else. So Fermilab has to produce lots of them to ensure that the detector sees any. But it also means that the neutrino beam is perfectly safe to walk through (i have) and you can just send it underground the whole way without having to build a 700km pipe or something like that.

[Sparko]

Let me give a shot at explaining this.

As Sparko originally noted, observing a quantum system causes it to adopt a well defined state, rather than remaining in a superposition of two or more. But "observation" is something different from our human-perspective definition, where it just means "looking at something". In the quantum world, most interactions with the environment end up being the equivalent of an observation - so if a particle interacts with the environment, it will no longer be in a superposition state.

This is why macroscopic objects never end up in a quantum state - they're always interacting with their environment.

Now, what about the neutrinos? One of the many quirky properties of these particular particles is that they rarely interact with the environment. The figure i recall is that a light-year of lead shielding would only block about 20 percent of the neutrinos going through it. As a result, they should be able to stay in a quantum state for much longer than any other particle. In this case, they state in a superposition from the site of their production (Fermilab) to the location where they hit the detector.

Incidentally, the neutrinos are just as uninterested in interacting with the detector as they are with anything else. So Fermilab has to produce lots of them to ensure that the detector sees any. But it also means that the neutrino beam is perfectly safe to walk through (i have) and you can just send it underground the whole way without having to build a 700km pipe or something like that.

Thanks that makes sense. Otherwise basically nothing would actually exist until someone looked at it.