Until we all become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the Fullness of the Stature of Christ

[TyRockwell]

heck we are not even talking prophesy here, but outright LYING. He claimed that Jesus was appearing physically to muslems. That was an outright LIE. False teaching.

Now you show yourself to believe another lie.

Your rules on allowing prophets to be fallable is ludicrous. Where are you getting this stuff? TBN?

Ever heard of the Holy Spirit? and 1st Cor. 14:29?

but prophesy is not by man but by God who IS perfect. That is why prophesy has to be perfect and accurate. Otherwise we know it was not from God but from man. That is the whole point, ty.

He who has joined himself to the Lord is one spirit with the Lord. We still see through a glass darkly and we prophesy in part, not in perfection. We grow up in the natural world, and learning to perceive in the realm of the Spirit is not like elementary school math. It is more like trying to describe a large object while blindfolded and possessing a limited vocabulary.

[TyRockwell]

Wow, you need to seek mental help or stop being a troll.

This is my thread and you are the troll.

[TyRockwell]

Hahah, you edited your post. I got the email alert to your original response. It was a hoot you looney.

Since you are following this topic with such great interest, though you are off topic, you answer the questions I put to Sparko that he won't answer, because they put him, and now you on the spot.

[T-Shirt Ninja]

Where does it say he has to repent to your satisfaction? It is between Him and God. Everybody in the world does not have to be notified of someone's sin.

Matthew 18:15-17
15"If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother.16"But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that BY THE MOUTH OF TWO OR THREE WITNESSES EVERY FACT MAY BE CONFIRMED.17"If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.

Benny Hinn has received multiple open letters calling for him to repent of false prophecies that he made in the past. I have not seen one response from him to them so far. When a fault is brought up to the entire church, they must know whether the individual has truly repented or not with either the person repenting in front of them or someone like the pastor standing in for them to do so. I have not seen either happen. I've heard that Benny Hinn did repent of teaching that each of Person the Trinity had a body, soul, and spirit (which is why I don't bring that up), but I haven't heard about anything else he's said.

Whenever a false prophecy is given, it's not just a sin against God, it's a sin against God's people who are deceived in the process. If I was lied to, I'd like to receive an apology from the person who deceived me once they realized that they had done wrong. I especially expect it from figures like preachers and evangelists who have an immense responsibility to so many people and are capable of a lot of good or a lot of hurt. God loves His people too much to let false prophets tear their lives apart. Benny Hinn has A LOT of responsibility to God and those people whom he teaches.

[TyRockwell]

Matthew 18:15-17
15"If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother.16"But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that BY THE MOUTH OF TWO OR THREE WITNESSES EVERY FACT MAY BE CONFIRMED.17"If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.

If your brother SINS AGAINST YOU... get the quote right.

[TyRockwell]

Sparko,
Learn the difference between "prophesy" and "prophecy."

[Michelle]

Ty, as long as were nitpicking, something in you signature has been bothering me. Titles of books should be underlined or italicized, never set in quotation marks. It could be: The End From the Beginning OR The End From the Beginning

[Glenn P]

Ty - that's not an admission of fallibility. It's a conditional statement: "IF WE SAY..... " Did they say they were without sin?

Incidentally: "Infallible" does not mean "without sin." The word for that is "impeccable." "Infallible" refers to the nature of one's teaching: Does it contain error or not?

I think you would probably say that their teaching is without error, but when they are not exercising their Apostolic gift/office, they were able to err, both intellectually and morally. Does that sound right?

[Glenn P]

If your brother SINS AGAINST YOU... get the quote right.

No - the quote was correct actually. I'll let you have a try at working out how this could be the case before I let you in on the facts.

[Raphael]

Only if you are deaf to the Holy Spirit would you never know what is false or what is legitimate. Paul said to let two or three prophets speak, and the others judge it. 1st Cor. 14:29
They were open to the possibility of error as well as truth.

Job 12:11Does not the ear test words as the palate tastes food?
1 John 4:1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world.

2 Peter 2:1-3 1But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction. 2And many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of truth will be blasphemed. 3And in their greed they will exploit you with false words. Their condemnation from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep.

we are given scripture to judge these things and in order to test every spirit.

You are being too harsh. Nobody made you listen to a prophecy and take it to heart, suspending your own personal obligation to discern it.

And if someone gives false prophecy after false prophecy are we to let them carry on and be regarded by others as prophets of God? No we should not for they make a mockery of God and of His people. We should speak out against them so that those who lack discernment will not be lead astray by false teachings.

A person who makes a mistake in prophesying is not to be considered to have blasphemed God! That's unmerciful.

That's SCRIPTURAL! Prophesying is not this hit and miss thing you do. When you claim to be prophesying you are claiming to be speaking God's Words to His people. you'd better make certain that what you are saying is genuine Prophecy. these men have made documented false prophecies. They claimed to be speaking God's words and their prophecies did not come to pass. That make them false prophets. And they did not do this once, or even twice, they have done it many many times and continue to do so.

You can't toss out 998 good things because of 1 or 2 bad ones.

Strawman!

This is not the old covenant. People make mistakes. You and I make mistakes. You are judgmental. I don't propose we toss you out and assign you a place with the hypocrites.

Even under the new covenant we are to judge those calling themselves brothers. And if the person is in the wrong we are to confront them on it. and if they do not repent we are to put them out and have nothing to do with them. In 1Cor 5:13 Paul tell us to purge the evil one from among us.

Yes, you may not be a cessationist, but why be as unmerciful and legalistic and unspiritual as one?
You may not be a cessationist, but you think like one.

Most cessationists I know aren't unmerciful, nor are they legalistic or unspiritual.
We're talking about people who are repeat offenders.
We have a scriptural standard by which to do things, I don't know about you, but I'm not going to toss out scripture to listen to a false prophet who teaches heresy.
Being on your guard to make sure you aren't taken in by the deceptions of the enemy is hardly being unspiritual.

[Crow]

Since you mentioned "cessationists," earlier,Ty, let me throw this in.

I'm close to a cessationist, but not 100%. I believe that the gifts exist in this day, but that God does not work with the church that way very often at the present. He created the Body of Christ to do His work, not to serve as window dressing. We have the scriptures and the Holy Spirit to guide us. We're well provided for. I'm not tossing this in her to argue the point with you, I'm mentioning it for clarity's sake, so that you know where I'm coming from when you read the rest of this.

Benny Hinn and other fakes like him are the biggest threat to those who truly do possess and exercise spiritual gifts in this day. Their proclamations are provably false. They pre-discredit anyone who would legitimately be led by the Spirit to speak to the world. Scriptures warn us of false prophets for a reason. They are dangerous. They mislead and they destroy faith. They are devourers. False prophets are antiChrist.

The second biggest threat is those Christians who rally behind the self-proclaimed and provably false prophets. They discredit not only the validity of the Church by upholding liars, but they lead others outside the Church to believe that God is a sham, the invention of the minds of those too weak to face life without some sort of super fairy godmother, the imaginary refuge of the easily duped. They are one of the biggest stumbling blocks to faith. They have driven, and continue to drive, countless people to disbelief.

So here's where I stand, Ty. False prophets and those who support them even after they are proven false by scriptural standards are not being exceptionally "good Christians" with extraordinary faith. They are deceivers. They misrepresent God. They destroy the faith of many. They make God look like a liar. They make God look as if He doesn't even exist, like he's some sort of fairy tale. Those are the people you should save your rebukes for. It isn't cessationists or skeptics who have discredited the office of prophet to both the Church and the world. It is the enemy who shelters among us, the liars, the self-serving, the detestable false prophets.

[TyRockwell]

No - the quote was correct actually. I'll let you have a try at working out how this could be the case before I let you in on the facts.

Originally posted by TyRockwell
If your brother SINS AGAINST YOU... get the quote right.

The footnotes in some Bibles say, "Some manuscripts omit against you." But the Amplified Bible, which endeavors to bring out the full meaning of the texts renders it "If your brother wrongs you."
It makes more sense that you keep your offenses and sins between the two principle persons involved. Jesus said that the goal is to be, "you have won your brother." The point is a restoration, not an attempt to publicly humiliate. It relates to interpersonal relationships.
In the case of a general prophecy, no principle person has been harmed by an error. It is not a personal injury, or a wrong done to any specific person. So there is no benefit in making a public scene when no real person was harmed.

[Glenn P]

Originally posted by TyRockwell
If your brother SINS AGAINST YOU... get the quote right.

The footnotes in some Bibles say, "Some manuscripts omit against you." But the Amplified Bible, which endeavors to bring out the full meaning of the texts renders it "If your brother wrongs you."

There is no excuse for favoring one manuscript tradition over another merely on the grounds of wanting to "bring out the full meaning." We need more respect fro Scripture than that.

It makes more sense that you keep your offenses and sins between the two principle persons involved. Jesus said that the goal is to be, "you have won your brother." The point is a restoration, not an attempt to publicly humiliate.

True, but not relevant to determining the correct wording in this case. Winning your brother back to the fold and away from his sin IS about restoration.

I am still waiting for your answer to my question about the infallibility of the Apostles.

[TyRockwell]

Ty, as long as were nitpicking, something in you signature has been bothering me. Titles of books should be underlined or italicized, never set in quotation marks. It could be: The End From the Beginning OR The End From the Beginning

Thank you for the kind advice. I'll remove the quotation marks. I want to keep the first letter of each word in the title a capital letter, though (The End From The Beginning). I want to emphasize "The Beginning" as much as "The End" since in most prophecy books the latter gets the main attention.
Its a phrase from Isaiah 46:10, where none of the words are capitalized.

[TyRockwell]

Ty - that's not an admission of fallibility. It's a conditional statement: "IF WE SAY..... " Did they say they were without sin?

Incidentally: "Infallible" does not mean "without sin." The word for that is "impeccable." "Infallible" refers to the nature of one's teaching: Does it contain error or not?

I think you would probably say that their teaching is without error, but when they are not exercising their Apostolic gift/office, they were able to err, both intellectually and morally. Does that sound right?

My point is that God uses imperfect people. "If we say we have no sin" is a rhetorical condition. The understanding should be that it is not something they or we should say.

We find even Paul saying "the good that I would do, I do not do, and the evil that I would not do, that I do."

Then he even takes the possibility of being wrong into his letter to the Corinthians, where he says, "I, not the Spirit, say to you." In another place, he says, "I think I have the Spirit." Allowance for error is made.

In 1st Cor. 14:29 there is another allowance for error. He said, "Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others judge." There is no implication of labeling an error as a 'blasphemy' nor is any harsh judgment hinted at.