Where's the Ark of the Covenant?

[sylvius]

In the verse, Og merit the blessing of Abraham because he had saved Lot from the destruction and also from what I understand, Moses was afraid of that blessing and if that blessing still was intact. Obviously not because Gd told Moses not to be afraid.

I understood it this way:

Og knew that the Messiah as son of Ruth the Moabitess had to be a descendant of Lot.

And he knew that Abraham knew this too.

And he expected Abraham to come into action for the sake of the Messiah -- i.e. for the sake of the final redemption.

And he foresaw that Abraham would be worsted in the battle with the four kings.

Og thought that he then could take Sarah as his wife and that he himself could become the father of the Messianicx generation -- we say: father of the anti-Christ.

[mitzi]

I understood it this way:

Og knew that the Messiah as son of Ruth the Moabitess had to be a descendant of Lot.

And he knew that Abraham knew this too.

And he expected Abraham to come into action for the sake of the Messiah -- i.e. for the sake of the final redemption.

And he foresaw that Abraham would be worsted in the battle with the four kings.

Og thought that he then could take Sarah as his wife and that he himself could become the father of the Messianicx generation -- we say: father of the anti-Christ.

Well! no wonder why I had some thought on Laban: (LINK:Biblical Archeology: Prophet and the Earthquake- The historicity of Balaam, the non-Jewish prophet. By: Rabbi Leibel Reznick)

"Balaam was the grandson of Laban the Aramean. [8].The patriarch Jacob lived in Aram and married the two daughters of Laban, Leah and Rachel. Jacob shepherded the flocks of his father-in-law for many years. As Jacob and his wives were returning to the land of Canaan, they stopped for a while in the land of Moab in the settlement later to be called Succoth. [9] Archaeologists believe that the Jordanian hill called Tel Deir Alla is the site of Biblical Succoth. And, it was here in Tel Deir Alla that evidence of Balaam was found."

[sylvius]

Well! no wonder why I had some thought on Laban:

Laban, לָבָן, changeable as the moon - "l'vanah" [hebrew]LBnH[/hebrew], or as the weather?

Genesis 31:2,
And Jacob saw Laban's countenance, that he was not disposed toward him as [he had been] yesterday and the day before.



Rebecca, Jacob's mother, was Laban's sister.

Hebrew רִבְקָה, "Rivkah" = "r'veikah" = team (two or three animals yoked together).

This because of (Genesis 25:23) :

Two nations are in thy womb, and two peoples shall be separated from thy bowels; and the one people shall be stronger than the other people; and the elder shall serve the younger.

"Two nations" -- Jews and Christians?

why is that?

what it means?

[shunyadragon]

Do you really believe it was melted? What proof does any of us have that it was? If the ark of the covenant was melted then what happened to the tablets inside?

"They shall make an ark of acacia wood," God commanded Moses in the Book of Exodus, after delivering the Israelites from slavery in Egypt. And so the Israelites built an ark, or chest, gilding it inside and out. And into this chest Moses placed stone tablets inscribed with the Ten Commandments, as given to him on Mount Sinai."

Sorry, I miss spoke. The ark and the tablets were trashed, the gold was melted down to make idols.

[mitzi]

Sorry, I miss spoke. The ark and the tablets were trashed, the gold was melted down to make idols.

I agree, you have misspoken. But then again, I not surprised that you used the word "trashed" as if the ark and the tablet could be. (That being-not respected) Next time, back up your assertions with some proof or perhaps if you don't like the flow of the conversation on this thread then stay in a discussion that is more to your liking without disrupting a on-going conversation.

[mitzi]

LINK: Biblical Archeology: Prophet and the Earthquake- The historicity of Balaam, the non-Jewish prophet. By: Rabbi Leibel Reznick)

and in the previous website listed:

LINK: Neolithic and Chalcolithic Earthquakes in Jordan
December 13, 2007

Sylvius:

In the beginning of this thread I asked if you could read up on another article-I don't know if both are related to each other?

See notes:

If a circa 600-650 BCE date is correct for the collapse of the plaster inscription at Tel Deir Alla, the earthquake that destroyed the building was, in fact, recorded twice in Tanach (Books of the Prophets):

1) The book of Amos begins with, "The words of Amos, who was one of the herders of Tekoa, who saw visions concerning Israel in the days of Uzziah, king of Judah, and in the days of Jeroboam, king of Israel, two years before the earthquake." (1:1)

2) In the book of Zechariah, the prophet says, "…and you will flee as you fled from the earthquake that was in the days of Uzziah, king of Judah." (14:5)

According to Biblical chronology, Uzziah reigned from 645 BCE – 593 BCE and Jeroboam reigned from 647 BCE – 607 BCE [16] The earthquake occurred when both Uzziah and Jeroboam were kings. That would be between 645 BCE – 607 BCE. The date fits perfectly with the latest paleographic analysis of the Deir Alla inscription.

The Deir Allah inscription not only attests to the historicity of Balaam but is also dramatic evidence of the earthquake in the days of Uzziah and Jeroboam. Two for the price of one.

[sylvius]

LINK: Biblical Archeology: Prophet and the Earthquake- The historicity of Balaam, the non-Jewish prophet. By: Rabbi Leibel Reznick)

and in the previous website listed:

LINK: Neolithic and Chalcolithic Earthquakes in Jordan
December 13, 2007

Sylvius:

In the beginning of this thread I asked if you could read up on another article-I don't know if both are related to each other?

See notes:

If a circa 600-650 BCE date is correct for the collapse of the plaster inscription at Tel Deir Alla, the earthquake that destroyed the building was, in fact, recorded twice in Tanach (Books of the Prophets):

1) The book of Amos begins with, "The words of Amos, who was one of the herders of Tekoa, who saw visions concerning Israel in the days of Uzziah, king of Judah, and in the days of Jeroboam, king of Israel, two years before the earthquake." (1:1)

2) In the book of Zechariah, the prophet says, "…and you will flee as you fled from the earthquake that was in the days of Uzziah, king of Judah." (14:5)

According to Biblical chronology, Uzziah reigned from 645 BCE – 593 BCE and Jeroboam reigned from 647 BCE – 607 BCE [16] The earthquake occurred when both Uzziah and Jeroboam were kings. That would be between 645 BCE – 607 BCE. The date fits perfectly with the latest paleographic analysis of the Deir Alla inscription.

The Deir Allah inscription not only attests to the historicity of Balaam but is also dramatic evidence of the earthquake in the days of Uzziah and Jeroboam. Two for the price of one.

Rashi on Amos 1:1,

two years before the earthquake Two years before Uzziah was plagued, the day Isaiah prophesied, as it is stated: (Isaiah 6:4) “And the doorposts quaked,” and it is stated: (Zechariah 14:5) “As you fled before the earthquake.”


Isaiah 6:4,
. And the doorposts quaked from the voice of him who called, and the House became filled with smoke.

Rashi:
And the doorposts quaked [Jonathan renders:] אֵילְוַתסִפֵּי, they are the doorposts of the entrance, which are measured with the measurements of cubits in the height and in the width, and they are the doorposts of the Temple.

from the voice of him who called [i.e.,] from the voice of the angels calling. This took place on the day of the earthquake, about which it is stated (Zechariah 14:5): “And you shall flee as you fled on the day of the earthquake in the days of Uzziah.” On the day that Uzziah stood, ready to burn incense in the Temple, the heavens quaked, [attempting] to burn him, as if to say that his punishment should be by burning, as it is said (Num. 16:35): “And it consumed the two hundred and fifty men.” For this reason, Scripture calls them seraphim, for they attempted to burn him. The earth quaked, attempting to swallow him up, thinking that his punishment should be that he be swallowed up like Korah, who contested the priesthood. Thereupon, a heavenly voice emanated and said (ibid. 17:5), “And there shall not be” another man contesting the priesthood “like Korah” to be swallowed up, “and like his assembly” to be burnt, but, “as the Lord spoke by the hand of Moses,” in the thornbush (Exodus 4:6), “Now bring your hand into your bosom,” and he took it out, stricken with zaraath like snow, here too, the zaraath shone on his forehead."

[mitzi]

Rashi on Amos 1:1,

two years before the earthquake Two years before Uzziah was plagued, the day Isaiah prophesied, as it is stated: (Isaiah 6:4) “And the doorposts quaked,” and it is stated: (Zechariah 14:5) “As you fled before the earthquake.”


Isaiah 6:4,
. And the doorposts quaked from the voice of him who called, and the House became filled with smoke.

Rashi:
And the doorposts quaked [Jonathan renders:] אֵילְוַתסִפֵּי, they are the doorposts of the entrance, which are measured with the measurements of cubits in the height and in the width, and they are the doorposts of the Temple.

from the voice of him who called [i.e.,] from the voice of the angels calling. This took place on the day of the earthquake, about which it is stated (Zechariah 14:5): “And you shall flee as you fled on the day of the earthquake in the days of Uzziah.” On the day that Uzziah stood, ready to burn incense in the Temple, the heavens quaked, [attempting] to burn him, as if to say that his punishment should be by burning, as it is said (Num. 16:35): “And it consumed the two hundred and fifty men.” For this reason, Scripture calls them seraphim, for they attempted to burn him. The earth quaked, attempting to swallow him up, thinking that his punishment should be that he be swallowed up like Korah, who contested the priesthood. Thereupon, a heavenly voice emanated and said (ibid. 17:5), “And there shall not be” another man contesting the priesthood “like Korah” to be swallowed up, “and like his assembly” to be burnt, but, “as the Lord spoke by the hand of Moses,” in the thornbush (Exodus 4:6), “Now bring your hand into your bosom,” and he took it out, stricken with zaraath like snow, here too, the zaraath shone on his forehead."

So both articles are the same?

[mitzi]

Once again: Ref. post #72



"The Midrash teaches that Balaam was one of Laban's sons. That means
Balaam was Jacob's bother-in-law. Balaam is the children of Israel's
uncle. The Midrash states that the stone wall that Laban and Jacob made
to seal their truce is the same wall against which the donkey smashes
Balaam's leg (Num. 22:25). � Jacob and Balaam studied together. But Balaam
also learned to be hateful and jealous of Jacob from Laban. Balaam was a
gifted student of the occult. It is taught that he was the advisor to
Pharaoh who suggested enslaving the Jews. Pharaoh's other advisors were
Jethro, who advised against Balaam, and Job, who remained neutral. The
Talmud teaches that Balaam was one of two men who knew "da'at Elyon,"
God's holy knowledge. The other man was Moses. The Talmud compares Balaam
with Moses."

LINK: CHUMASH CANDESCENCE
PARASHOT CHUKAT
AND BALAK
NUMBERS 19:01-25:07
RABBI ARTHUR SEGAL

[sylvius]

Once again: Ref. post #72



"The Midrash teaches that Balaam was one of Laban's sons. That means
Balaam was Jacob's bother-in-law. Balaam is the children of Israel's
uncle. The Midrash states that the stone wall that Laban and Jacob made
to seal their truce is the same wall against which the donkey smashes
Balaam's leg (Num. 22:25). � Jacob and Balaam studied together. But Balaam
also learned to be hateful and jealous of Jacob from Laban. Balaam was a
gifted student of the occult. It is taught that he was the advisor to
Pharaoh who suggested enslaving the Jews. Pharaoh's other advisors were
Jethro, who advised against Balaam, and Job, who remained neutral. The
Talmud teaches that Balaam was one of two men who knew "da'at Elyon,"
God's holy knowledge. The other man was Moses. The Talmud compares Balaam
with Moses."

LINK: CHUMASH CANDESCENCE
PARASHOT CHUKAT
AND BALAK
NUMBERS 19:01-25:07
RABBI ARTHUR SEGAL

Numbers 25:1,
Israel settled in [color=red]EDITME[/color][color=red]EDITME[/color][color=red]EDITME[/color][color=red]EDITME[/color]tim, and the people began to commit harlotry with the daughters of the Moabites.

[color=red]EDITME[/color][color=red]EDITME[/color][color=red]EDITME[/color][color=red]EDITME[/color]tim = acacia's

Rashi:
in [color=red]EDITME[/color][color=red]EDITME[/color][color=red]EDITME[/color][color=red]EDITME[/color]tim That is its name. — [Sanh. 106a]

to commit harlotry with the daughters of Moab As a result of Balaam’s advice, as is stated in [the chapter entitled] "Cheilek’ (Sanh. 106a).

[sylvius]

"The Midrash teaches that Balaam was one of Laban's sons

.

so he was the brother of Rachel and Leah.

Leah was destined to be the wife of Esau, as the firstborn of the twins.

Because of Esau's selling the birthright also Leah became wife of Jacob.

So maybe that's why Balaam went out to curse Israel,

since Israel is Jacob who prevailed in the wrestling with (the guardian angel of) Esau ...

[mitzi]

.

so he was the brother of Rachel and Leah.

Leah was destined to be the wife of Esau, as the firstborn of the twins.

Because of Esau's selling the birthright also Leah became wife of Jacob.

So maybe that's why Balaam went out to curse Israel,

since Israel is Jacob who prevailed in the wrestling with (the guardian angel of) Esau ...

From the Aish website:

"Balaam was the grandson of Laban the Aramean."

"It is clear that the Tel Deir Alla inscription of Balaam is foretelling doom for the Moabites. In the book of Numbers (23:24) we find Balaam telling the Moabite nation of their impending demise. "Behold, the [Israelite] nation will arise like a lion cub and raise itself like a lion; it will not lie down until it consumes prey and drinks the blood of the slain." In the next chapter Balaam says, "A star has issued from Jacob and a scepter-bearer has risen from Israel and he shall pierce the nobles of Moab…" (Numbers 24:17)"

Where the other website from Israel forum states: "The Midrash teaches that Balaam was one of Laban's sons."

[mitzi]

.

so he was the brother of Rachel and Leah.

Leah was destined to be the wife of Esau, as the firstborn of the twins.

Because of Esau's selling the birthright also Leah became wife of Jacob.

So maybe that's why Balaam went out to curse Israel,

since Israel is Jacob who prevailed in the wrestling with (the guardian angel of) Esau ...

another notations and one that I mentioned:

LABAN AND BALAAM

The Zohar has an interesting section regarding both Laban (Jacob's father-in-law) and Balaam, the evil prophet who attempted to curse the children of Israel. It states that both had expertise in tapping into the "spiritual sea," for the purpose of gaining supernatural power. The passage below makes specific reference to Laban's use of the ten unholy sephirot (crowns).

Balaam realized that he could not make use of the same to curse Israel, as their power is also given to them by God. When God issues His protection (as in this case and also with Pharaoh in the time of the Egyptian captivity - see subsequent section below), then those who call upon the unholy powers will experience a divine "power shortage":

Soncino Zohar, Bere[color=red]EDITME[/color][color=red]EDITME[/color][color=red]EDITME[/color][color=red]EDITME[/color]h, Section 1, Page 167a - It is written in regard to Balaam: “And God came unto Balaam at night” (Num. XXII, 20). Similarly in regard to Laban it is written: “And God, came to Laban the Aramean in a dream of the night, and said unto him: Take heed to thyself that thou speak not to Jacob either good or bad” (Gen. XXXI, 24). Instead of the words “that thou speak not”, we should have expected here “that thou do no evil to Jacob” But the truth is that Laban in his pursuit after Jacob did not intend to contend against him with armed force, as he was well aware that Jacob and his sons were more than a match for him, but he designed to kill him with the power of his mouth. Hence: “that thou speak not”, and not “that thou do not”. It is also written: “It is in the power of my hand to do you hurt” (Gen. XXXI, 29). Laban knew this from the warning given him, as he himself continued: “But the God of your father spoke to me, etc.” (Ibid.). And this is the very testimony which God commanded the Israelites to pronounce, as it is written: “And thou shalt testify and say before the Lord thy God: An Aramean intended to destroy my father, etc.” (Deut. XXVI, 5). Of Balaam it is further written: “and he went not as at other times, to meet enchantments” (Num. XXIV, 1), this being his wont, since he was an adept in divinations. Laban also said: “I have observed the signs” (Gen. XXX, 27), that is to say, he tested Jacob's fortune by means of his divinations, and when he set out to destroy him he also intended to accomplish his end by the same power of magic and sorcery, but God did not permit him. And it was in allusion to this that Balaam his grandson said: “For there is no enchantment with Jacob, neither is there any divination with Israel” (Num. XXIII, 23), as much as to say: “Who can prevail against them, seeing that when my grandfather sought to destroy their ancestor by means of enchantments and sorceries, he did not succeed, as he was not permitted to curse him?” Laban, indeed, employed against Jacob all the ten kinds of magic and divination of the flashing of the underworld crowns, but could do him no hurt, as it is written: “and he changed my wages ten times, but God suffered him not to hurt me” (Gen. XXXI, 7), where the term monim (times) is akin to the term minim, signifying “kinds”. These ten kinds of witchcraft are alluded to in the verse saying: “There shall not be found among you... one that useth divination, a soothsayer, or an enchanter, or a sorcerer, or a charmer, or one that consulteth a ghost or a familiar spirit, or a necromancer” (Deut. XVIII, 10-11). R. Jose said: ‘Divination and enchantment are two different arts of the same potency. Balaam made use of divination against Israel, as it says: “with divinations in their hand” (Num. XXII, 7). Laban, on the other hand, used enchantments against Jacob, but neither of them succeeded. Hence Balaam said: “For there is no enchantment with Jacob, neither is there any divination with Israel” (Ibid. XXIII, 23), the first half of the verse alluding to the days of Laban, the other half to the time of Balaam himself. Balaam said in effect to Balak: “How can anyone prevail against them, seeing that all the divinations and sorceries residing in our crowns derive their potency from the flashing of the supernal sovereignty, which is attached to them, as it is written: ‘The Lord his God is with them, and the shouting for the King is among them” (Ibid. 21).’

LINK: LABAN AND BALAAM A study of Revelations

[mitzi]

Note from: LABAN (Jewish Encyclopedia) - BibleWiki

"Having been informed of Jacob's flight, Laban assembled, besides his family, all the strong men of his city, with whom he pursued Jacob. Michael then drew his sword and ran after Laban to kill him, but only warned him not to speak to Jacob either good or evil (Pirḳe R. El. l.c.). The question which suggests itself, why, if Laban had sons (Gen 30:35, xxxi. 1), did he send Rachel to keep his flocks (ib. xxix. 7-10), is explained in the Midrash by the fact that he had no sons before Jacob's arrival, and that it was because of his association with the latter that God gave him sons (Gen. R. lxx. 17; Num. R. xx. 16). According to the "Sefer ha-Yashar" (l.c.), Laban had three sons, Beor (comp. Num. R. l.c.), Alub, and Murash, whom his wife Adinah bore. It was Beor, according to the same authority, who was sent by his father to inform Esau of Jacob's departure and to urge him to pursue his brother (see Jacob).

2. A place in the wilderness, mentioned only once (Deut 1:1), with Paran, Tophel, and Hazeroth. In the Septuagint the name is written Λοβóν, giving the Hebrew vocalization (missing hebrew text) (comp. (missing hebrew text) = Σóδομ). Modern scholars have endeavored to identify it with Libnah. Sifre (Deut. 1), followed by the three Targumim and Rashi, interprets the words (missing hebrew text) as "the calumny of the white thing," in reference to the complaint of the Israelites concerning the manna, which was white (Num 11:6, xxi. 5)."


So I'm apt to think that he was the grandson as stated in Aish

[mitzi]

.

so he was the brother of Rachel and Leah.

Leah was destined to be the wife of Esau, as the firstborn of the twins.

Because of Esau's selling the birthright also Leah became wife of Jacob.

So maybe that's why Balaam went out to curse Israel,

since Israel is Jacob who prevailed in the wrestling with (the guardian angel of) Esau ...

Information should be within these websites:

LINK: Parashat Korach

Bnei Re’uven


and,

LINK: B PARSHAT HASHEVUA

PARSHA : VAYIKRA - Zachor

Date : 13 Adar II 5757 - 22-Mar-1997