Materialists believe in magic

[Jorge]

Jorge, you believe that the universe came from nothing, that abra cadabra, it was puffed into existence out of nothing, I don't, so it is you who believes in magic, not me.

No, not from "nothing". The Creator God (not "nothing") was the source of the universe.

You, OTOH, must invoke metaphysical non-science [namely, that mass-energy are eternal] in order to support your position. Everyone else [that doesn't subscribe to your metaphysical belief of eternal mass-energy] knows that there was an absolute beginning because scientific laws demand that there had to be an absolute beginning. That is one of the dilemmas of modern science - one that must torture Atheists to no end.

Thus, you either hold that the universe came from NOTHING or you must escape into the limitless fantasies of non-science, where anything goes: mass-energy are eternal, primordial goo becomes Einstein and so on. We now know where you stand.

That you are unable to grasp the simple logic of that argument is your problem.

Jorge

[JimL]

No, not from "nothing". The Creator God (not "nothing") was the source of the universe.

You, OTOH, must invoke metaphysical non-science [namely, that mass-energy are eternal] in order to support your position. Everyone else [that doesn't subscribe to your metaphysical belief of eternal mass-energy] knows that there was an absolute beginning because scientific laws demand that there had to be an absolute beginning. That is one of the dilemmas of modern science - one that must torture Atheists to no end.

Thus, you either hold that the universe came from NOTHING or you must escape into the limitless fantasies of non-science, where anything goes: mass-energy are eternal, primordial goo becomes Einstein and so on. We now know where you stand.

That you are unable to grasp the simple logic of that argument is your problem.

Jorge

From the theistic perspective Jorge, creation means that the creator is distinct in nature from that which he created, in other words that out of nothing he created something. Thats what you believe, which is more in line with what you are refering to as magic, aka the miraculous. Materialist don't believe in that sort of thing, so you are wrong to suggest that it is they who believe in magic. It makes you look bad when criticizing others for believing in what you yourself believe in, particulary when they don't even believe any such thing. If you are going to believe in the miraculous, then don't deny your belief by disparaging others whom you believe to hold to the same belief.