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Theology 201 Guidelines

This is the forum to discuss the spectrum of views within Christianity on God's foreknowledge and election such as Calvinism, Arminianism, Molinism, Open Theism, Process Theism, Restrictivism, and Inclusivism, Christian Universalism and what these all are about anyway. Who is saved and when is/was their salvation certain? How does God exercise His sovereignty and how powerful is He? Is God timeless and immutable? Does a triune God help better understand God's love for mankind?

While this area is for the discussion of these doctrines within historic Christianity, all theists interested in discussing these areas within the presuppositions of and respect for the Christian framework are welcome to participate here. This is not the area for debate between nontheists and theists, additionally, there may be some topics that within the Moderator's discretion fall so outside the bounds of mainstream evangelical doctrine that may be more appropriately placed within Comparative Religions 101 Nontheists seeking only theistic participation only in a manner that does not seek to undermine the faith of others are also welcome - but we ask that Moderator approval be obtained beforehand.

Atheists are welcome to discuss and debate these issues in the Apologetics 301 or General Theistics 101 forum without such restrictions. Theists who wish to discuss these issues outside the parameters of orthodox Christian doctrine are invited to Unorthodox Theology 201.

Remember, our forum rules apply here as well. If you haven't read them now would be a good time.

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Determinism & Paul

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  • #91
    Originally posted by phat8594 View Post
    I have...and I don't see Jethro's own laws being put into place. Rather, I read that Jethro gives advice to Moses to appoint leaders to help in the demand of teaching people the statutes of God and His laws.
    From the context, the statues and ordinances predated Moses' proclamations arrived at after the events of Sinai. Where did Moses derive them? Note: from the context of the relevant verses Jethro was already familiar with what Moses taught, and that it was Jethro that led the initial sacrifices .

    Originally posted by phat8594 View Post
    I am aware of this. However, I don't believe Paul was affirming all the rabbinic add ons to the Law. In fact, when he quotes the Law, he quotes from the Ten Commandments 'You shall not covet'.
    On occasion, but the bulk of Moses' ordinance deal with institutionalising the sacrifical system, the priesthood, execution for relatively minor offenses, usary, dietary and other day to day matters.

    Originally posted by phat8594 View Post
    I am well aware of Romans 7, and I am not just 'proof-texting' as you seem to insinuate. The opening verses of Romans 7 are not to be read in a vacuum, but rather in the context of all of Romans, and especially in light of the verses before and after. Paul's point in Romans 7 is to show how the Law, although good (he affirms this), is unable to do what the Jews thought it would do (i.e. make them righteous through adherence to a set of fleshly commands).
    See Rom 7:1-6 especially vs4-6 "Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God. But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter."

    Originally posted by phat8594 View Post
    So yes, of course Paul reminds the Christian believers that they are dead to the Law (i.e. it has no hold on them), because they have died to it through the body of Christ. Paul is showing them that they are not being 'unlawful' by putting Christ above the Law (thus he uses an idea from the law...death and remarriage).
    Well they can't have been "unlawful" as the Law was non-existent to believer's in Christ, just as a widow can "lawfully" remarry as her former husband is non-existent.

    Consider Rom 7:7 "What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet."

    Note A.Paul is here pointing directly to YHWH's commandments which he seems to intimate are superior to Moses' ordinances (remember it was Moses' who instituted the murder of adulterers and rape victims that could not prove their innocence).
    Last edited by apostoli; 03-14-2014, 04:48 AM.

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    • #92
      Originally posted by dacristoy View Post
      Makes me wonder if we are on the same planet...
      "What we have here is a failure to communicate."

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      • #93
        Originally posted by RBerman View Post
        "What we have here is a failure to communicate."
        Smile....

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