One argument against the divinity of Jesus

[smaneck]

You are the real coward and bogus polemicist that you are, muddycake.....!!

What was it Jesus said?

7:15 There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him: but the things which come out of him, those are they that defile the man.

(King James Bible, Mark)

[Dan Zebiri]

Calling you or your fellow dawagandists 'coward or bogus' had never defiled me, ms.sue...:-)

Stick to the point! Dan.

[smaneck]

Calling you or your fellow dawagandists 'coward or bogus' had never defiled me, ms.sue...:-)
.

What did then?

[mudcake]

You are the real coward and bogus polemicist that you are, muddycake.....!!

Like I already declared earlier, why should I be re-inventing the wheel against your desperate and facetious polemics, you dawagandist!

Sam and the other Christians on www.answering-islam.org have all already systematically DISMANTLED your so-called hypothetical 'arguments' against the divinity of Jesus Christ over here http://www.answering-islam.org/Shamoun/index.htm

you on the other hand, have yet to even debate with Sam on any significant points!

Thats why you and other islamophiles here, try so desperately hard to discredit and pooh-pooh the articles that www.answering-islam,org carry that expose the false polemics of Islam and feeble dawagadnists like yourself!

You just have no answer to these factual exposes, that you have to blackout the whole website!

NOW, THATS real cowardice, my lost friend! Try again, but you are the one really destined to hell fire for persisting in your blind darkness!

Dan.

LOL... As I stated coward, there is no benefit in posting bogus articles by sam shamoun where his mode of argumentation and erroneous biblical exegesis have been refuted and dismantled here - http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/sh...&postcount=160

LOL..For your information dan, i have contacted sam the coward and sent him all my arguments in advance where i dismantled his dubious arguments supporting the trinity and he stated that he refuses to respond to my e-mails. I requested him to post my questions on answering islam's - 'question and answers section' and refute me, if he can. I said he has a perfect opportunity to expose me by refuting me on his website, if he can..Again he refuses to offer any critique. I told Sam he should be fired for not doing his job in answering questions by muslims as promoted on his comedy site. If you don't believe me dan, e-mail sam and ask him if he knows who mudcake is. The coward will tell you........

you on the other hand, have yet to even debate with Sam on any significant points!

I have refuted you and sam together dan since you directly use sams arguments here on this forum only to find your ( you and sams arguments) responses are followed up with direct critiques that expose the fallacies of your polytheistic beliefs.

You blindly follow sams lies who will lead you to the fire if you continue to worship him dan LOL...

Again dan show some credibility and be more direct and specific and pick anyone of my posts and illustrate directly where sam has refuted me. You obviously have read his articles so it should'nt be that difficult for you LOL....

May Allah guide you to the deen of Islam and save you from your polytheism.Ameeen

[Dan Zebiri]

Unfortunately, your stupidity expresses itself again and again, mudcake!

Spouting that "I worship sam..." only demonstrates your on going stupidity! I do not, and sam himself disavows any need for 'worship'!

I as a Christian and follower of Christ Jesus, worship Jesus - the living word of God who shares in the same divine nature of Allah.

As Jesus Christ Himself already declared so, many times over, and confirmed by all the Apostles - whom you call the 'hawarii' in the language of the quran.

But, unfortunately you do not belong to Christ as He himself already prophesied :

24 The Jews then gathered around Him, and were saying to Him, "How long will You keep us in suspense? If You are the Christ, tell us plainly."

25 Jesus answered them, "I told you, and you do not believe; the works that I do in My Father's name, these testify of Me.

26 "But you do not believe because you are not of My sheep.

27 "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;

28 and I give eternal life to them, and they will NEVER PERISH; and no one will snatch them out of My hand."

John 10 : 24 - 28.

By rejecting this Jesus Christ, you and all muslims here (including all its derivatives) have totally lost out on the genuine ETERNAL LIFE that only Christ Jesus can give.

I worship THIS CHRIST, Who alone has the divine authority - along with His heavenly Father whom He shares divinity with. And no one - not any being, is able to snatch us out from His almighty hand.

You muslims on the other hand, have no certainty whatsoever that you will escape hell-fire even by being good muslims!

So, you keep trying, and hoping and trying and hoping - thats all you have, 'inshaallah' maybe if God is willing you just might!

But you are really NEVER sure.

Dan.

[mudcake]

Dan Zebiri;2418354]Unfortunately, your stupidity expresses itself again and again, mudcake!

LOl.. Unfortunately, your stupidity expresses itself again and again, Dan LOl....

Spouting that "I worship sam..." only demonstrates your on going stupidity! I do not, and sam himself disavows any need for 'worship'!

No Dan you follow, swollow and worship everything sam says dan. He has deceived you into believing the lies (we refute) about Islam and led you to worship him as your saviour...

I as a Christian and follower of Christ Jesus, worship Jesus - the living word of God who shares in the same divine nature of Allah.

You worship two distinct Gods that share the same divine nature dan. That makes you a Christian polytheist. Is this what sam teaches you dan?

As Jesus Christ Himself already declared so, many times over, and confirmed by all the Apostles - whom you call the 'hawarii' in the language of the quran.

LOL.. Wrong Dan... the 'hawarii' declared no such nonsense! It is your dubious Christological belief about a mythical Jesus derived from speculative Jewish personified wisdom philosophy infused with Greek logos theology that infected the NT that begot the false idea that Jesus shared divinity with God Almighty, which eventually prepared the false doctrine of the trinity that is incongruent with biblical monotheism.

But, unfortunately you do not belong to Christ as He himself already prophesied :

24 The Jews then gathered around Him, and were saying to Him, "How long will You keep us in suspense? If You are the Christ, tell us plainly."

25 Jesus answered them, "I told you, and you do not believe; the works that I do in My Father's name, these testify of Me.

26 "But you do not believe because you are not of My sheep.

27 "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;

28 and I give eternal life to them, and they will NEVER PERISH; and no one will snatch them out of My hand."

John 10 : 24 - 28.

We Muslims follow the true Jesus, unlike you dan. Your Christological belief about a 'Jesus' is a product of Jewish personified wisdom speculative theology infused with Greek logos modes of thought that infected 'Johns' mind along with the other NT authors and early church fathers to falsely misinterpreted Jesus as some divine eternal god....

By rejecting this Jesus Christ, you and all muslims here (including all its derivatives) have totally lost out on the genuine ETERNAL LIFE that only Christ Jesus can give.

We don't reject Jesus dan. Its YOU who rejects Jesus LOL....

I worship THIS CHRIST, Who alone has the divine authority - along with His heavenly Father whom He shares divinity with. And no one - not any being, is able to snatch us out from His almighty hand.

You worship THIS CHRIST as a divine eternal god who has divine authority granted by the other god you worship - the father - that both share the same essence of divinity that exist as two distinct gods. Sam has snatched you away into believing lies about islam and led you to worship a triune god unknown to the bible.

You muslims on the other hand, have no certainty whatsoever that you will escape hell-fire even by being good muslims!

So, you keep trying, and hoping and trying and hoping - thats all you have, 'inshaallah' maybe if God is willing you just might!

But you are really NEVER sure.

Who told you that lie dan LOL.. Muslims indeed do believe in assurance of salvation.

Any Muslim that dies and bears witness that there is no other deity or object worthy of worship except Allah alone and that Muhammad is the final prophet will indeed enter paradise as an eternal and final abode.

However, prior to dwelling in paradise for eternity, on the Day of Judgment, a Muslim that died with the belief that there is no other deity or object worthy of worship except Allah alone and associate no partners with him in worship MAY either be (or may not be) punished in hellfire for a limited period of time for the sins they have committed or he/she will be completely forgiven of all their sins, by the grace and sublime mercy of Allah.

Indeed Allah, the Most Merciful has reserved his sublime Mercy for the Muslims on the day of Judgement that will be manifested through the blessed intecession of Muhammad. AllahuAkbar!!!!

For example:

In a hadith it is narrated by al-Bukhari:

"The believers will gather together on the Day of Resurrection and will say: Should we not ask [someone] to intercede for us with our Lord? So they will come to Adam and will say: You are the Father of mankind; Allah created you with His hand He made His angels bow down to you and He taught you the names of everything, so intercede for us with you Lord so that He may give us relief form this place where we are. And he will say: I am not in a position [to do that] - and he will mention his wrongdoing and will feel ashamed and will say: Go to Noah, for he is the first messenger that Allah sent to the inhabitants of the earth… So they will come to me and I shall set forth to ask permission to come to my Lord, and permission will be given, and when I shall see my Lord I shall prostrate myself. He will leave me thus for such time as it pleases Him, and then it will be said [to me]: Raise your head. Ask and it will be granted. Speak and it will be heard. Intercede and your intercession will be accepted. So I shall raise my head and praise Him with a form of praise that He will teach me. Then I shall intercede and He will set me a limit [as to the number of people], so I shall admit them into Paradise. Then I shall return to Him, and when I shall see my Lord [I shall bow down] as before. Then I shall intercede and He will set me a limit [as to the number of people]. So I shall admit them into Paradise. Then I shall return for a third time, then a fourth, and I shall say: There remains in Hell-fire only those whom the Quran has confined and who must be there for eternity. There shall come out of Hell-fire he who has said: There is no god but Allah and who has in his heart goodness weighing a barley-corn; then there shall come out of Hell-fire he who has said: There is no god but Allah and who has in his heart goodness weighing a grain of wheat; then there shall come out of Hell-fire he who has said: There is no god but Allah and who has in his heart goodness weighing an atom." (al-Bukhari )

In a hadith it is narrated by Muslim

… "It would be said to me: O Muhammad, raise your head, and say and it would be heard; ask and it would be granted; intercede and intercession would be accepted. So I would say: My people, my people. It would be said to me: Go and take out from it (Hell) him who has in his heart faith equal to the weight of a mustard seed. I would go and do that. I would again return to my Lord and extol Him with those praises. I would then fall in prostration. It would be said to me: O Muhammad, raise your head: say, and you would be listened to; ask and it would be granted; intercede and intercession would be accepted. I would say: My Lord, my people, my people. It would be said to me: Go, and bring out of the Fire him who has in his heart as much faith as the smallest, smallest, smallest grain of mustard seed. I would go and do that." (Muslim)

In a hadith it is narrated by al-Bukhari

… Anas then said, "Muhammad talked to us saying, 'On the Day of Resurrection the people will surge with each other like waves, and then they will come to Adam and say, 'Please intercede for us with your Lord.'…

They would come to me and I would say, 'I am for that.' Then I will ask for my Lord's permission, and it will be given, and then He will inspire me to praise Him with such praises as I do not know now. So I will praise Him with those praises and will fall down, prostrate before Him. Then it will be said, 'O Muhammad, raise your head and speak, for you will be listened to; and ask, for your will be granted (your request); and intercede, for your intercession will be accepted.' I will say, 'O Lord, my followers! My followers!' And then it will be said, 'Go and take out of Hell (Fire) all those who have faith in their hearts, equal to the weight of a barley grain.' I will go and do so and return to praise Him with the same praises, and fall down (prostrate) before Him. Then it will be said, 'O Muhammad, raise your head and speak, for you will be listened to, and ask, for you will be granted (your request); and intercede, for your intercession will be accepted.' I will say, 'O Lord, my followers! My followers!' It will be said, 'Go and take out of it all those who have faith in their hearts equal to the weight of a small ant or a mustard seed.' I will go and do so and return to praise Him with the same praises, and fall down in prostration before Him. It will be said, 'O, Muhammad, raise your head and speak, for you will be listened to, and ask, for you will be granted (your request); and intercede, for your intercession will be accepted.' I will say, 'O Lord, my followers!' Then He will say, 'Go and take out (all those) in whose hearts there is faith even to the lightest, lightest mustard seed. (Take them) out of the Fire.' I will go and do so."' …

Anas told me the same as he told you and said that the prophet added, 'I then return for a fourth time and praise Him similarly and prostrate before Him. He asks me the same as he did, 'O Muhammad, raise your head and speak, for you will be listened to; and ask, for you will be granted (your request): and intercede, for your intercession will be accepted.' I will say, 'O Lord, allow me to intercede for whoever said, 'None has the right to be worshiped except Allah.' Then Allah will say, 'By my Power, and my Majesty, and by My Supremacy, and by My Greatness, I will take out of Hell (Fire) whoever said: 'None has the right to be worshipped except Allah.'" (al-Bukhari)

So although a Muslim MAY be (or may not be) punished for his sins in the fire for a limited period of time, he/she will not remain in the fire for eternity. Muslims are assured salvation from the fire for eternity. The final destination for all Muslims is paradise for eternity.

“O my Servants who have transgressed against their souls! Do not despair of the Mercy of Allah: for Allah forgives all sins: for He is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. Turn to your Lord (in repentance) and bow to His Will, before the Penalty comes upon you: after that you shall not be helped." (39:53–54)

"O ye who believe! follow not Satan's footsteps: if any will follow the footsteps of Satan, he will (but) command what is shameful and wrong: and were it not for the grace and mercy of God on you, not one of you would ever have been pure: but God doth purify whom He pleases: and God is One Who hears and knows (all things)." (24:21)

Your 'certainty' dan is an illusion. Come to Islam that will save you from the fire for eternity.

"O ye who believe! give your response to God and His Messenger, when He calleth you to that which will give you life; and know that God cometh in between a man and his heart, and that it is He to Whom ye shall (all) be gathered." (8:24)

"Say: "If ye do love God, Follow me: God will love you and forgive you your sins: For God is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful." (3:31)


Love,

mudcake.....

[smaneck]

Unfortunately, your stupidity expresses itself again and again, mudcake!

whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

(King James Bible, Matthew)

You muslims on the other hand, have no certainty whatsoever that you will escape hell-fire even by being good muslims!

Yet according Jesus's own words above you yourself are in danger of hell fire.

[Dan Zebiri]

Your persistent stupor into recent post-modernist's experimentations with theories of Jesus Christ's 'origins' have been roundly answered and scholastically refuted already.

Obviously you have never examined with proper care, nor even read Dr.Richard Bacukham's works on Jesus and Christology.

Go and get your education here, dawagandists, barnasha, mudcake, etc :

Jesus and the Eyewitnesses: The Gospels as Eyewitnesses Testimony -
http://www.amazon.com/Jesus-Eyewitne...0327037&sr=1-1

The Gospel of John and Christian Theology -
http://www.amazon.com/Gospel-John-Ch...0327037&sr=1-2

Testimony of the Beloved Disciple, The Narrative, History and Theology in the Gospel of John -
http://www.amazon.com/Testimony-Belo...0327037&sr=1-3

Go and sell your dawaganda elsewhere, we are fully sure of our salvation in Paradise.

Those who don't know the meaning of dawaganda = 'muslim/islamic propoganda'

Dawa = the muslim mission to convert the whole world to islam.

Regards, Dan.

[MarcusAndreas]

I just took a look at Mark's profile. He's only 13! no wonder he couldn't understand my argument.

I understood it just fine, I thought it was nonsense.

[Imam ahmad]

So Jesus was both human and divine? How can God be both divine, and mortal at the same time, isn't that in and of itself a contradiction?

[Bowman]

So Jesus was both human and divine? How can God be both divine, and mortal at the same time, isn't that in and of itself a contradiction?

To say that God cannot be this is to place limits on an infinite creator - which is what islam does.

[Imam ahmad]

No to say that God can be both uncreated, and created is just plain confusing, and in conflict with good common sense.

[Bowman]

No to say that God can be both uncreated, and created is just plain confusing, and in conflict with good common sense.

You are thinking with islamic limitations placed upon the true creator God of the Holy Bible.

The Biblical God has no limits, brother.

The 'allah' that you worship does, however...

[smaneck]

So Jesus was both human and divine? How can God be both divine, and mortal at the same time, isn't that in and of itself a contradiction?

Not necessarily. One can be both human and divine at the same time. What one can't be is human and a deity at the same time. Let me explain. If you take a polished mirror and direct it towards the sun, one might well look at that mirror and say, "There is the sun." Of course in actuality the sun is still 93 million miles away. But there are pure humans like Jesus, like Muhammad, who like the mirror reflect the names and attributes of God. They manifest (zuhur) God. Wherever the divinity of Jesus is talked about in the Bible it is referred to in terms of manifestation. The word 'incarnation' appears nowhere.

[smaneck]

You are thinking with islamic limitations placed upon the true creator God of the Holy Bible.

The Biblical God has no limits, brother.

The 'allah' that you worship does, however...

Strange thing for someone to say who imagines God can't forgive sins without blood sacrifices.