Joseph of Arimathea Buying Linen On Passover?

[Adrift]

Yeah I would think so

Another thought is that he could have gotten the cloth from a gentile merchant

I had thought of that, but I think I remember reading Mishnah on that where it said that that couldn't be a work around to be exploited, but that might have not mattered depending the circumstances and the haggling aspect that Just Passing Through brought to light.

[rogue06]

I think there has always been an allowance for burial preparation, because they didn't wait 3 or 4 days like we do to bury, and the didn't embalm. They buried as soon as practical, so it was acceptable to make preparation accordingly.

Exactly. Israel has a warm environment which isn't exactly conducive to allowing corpses to sit around for a few days. And as you note they didn't embalm which makes it more important to bury bodies quickly. Then of course there is the fact that Jews believe that dead bodies defile the land which makes a quick burial even more important.

[Sparko]

also a side issue, about the sanhedron and the claim that they would have left the body on the cross and forbade burying it.

John 19:31 Now it was the day of Preparation, and the next day was to be a special Sabbath. Because the Jewish leaders did not want the bodies left on the crosses during the Sabbath, they asked Pilate to have the legs broken and the bodies taken down. 32 The soldiers therefore came and broke the legs of the first man who had been crucified with Jesus, and then those of the other. 33 But when they came to Jesus and found that he was already dead, they did not break his legs. 34 Instead, one of the soldiers pierced Jesus’ side with a spear, bringing a sudden flow of blood and water. 35 The man who saw it has given testimony, and his testimony is true. He knows that he tells the truth, and he testifies so that you also may believe. 36 These things happened so that the scripture would be fulfilled: “Not one of his bones will be broken,”[c] 37 and, as another scripture says, “They will look on the one they have pierced.”[d]


38 Later, Joseph of Arimathea asked Pilate for the body of Jesus.

also it says Nicodemus brought the spices. Luke says the women prepared the spices later. but nobody says anyone bought spices, and only Mark even says Joseph bought the linen cloth

and the Tomb was not necessarily Josephs, but just a new tomb that was conveniently nearby

41 At the place where Jesus was crucified, there was a garden, and in the garden a new tomb, in which no one had ever been laid. 42 Because it was the Jewish day of Preparation and since the tomb was nearby, they laid Jesus there.

[Cow Poke]

and the Tomb was not necessarily Josephs, but just a new tomb that was conveniently nearby

The NKJV says "his tomb"...

Matthew 27:57-61New King James Version (NKJV)
Jesus Buried in Joseph’s Tomb

57 Now when evening had come, there came a rich man from Arimathea, named Joseph, who himself had also become a disciple of Jesus. 58 This man went to Pilate and asked for the body of Jesus. Then Pilate commanded the body to be given to him. 59 When Joseph had taken the body, he wrapped it in a clean linen cloth, 60 and laid it in his new tomb which he had hewn out of the rock; and he rolled a large stone against the door of the tomb, and departed. 61 And Mary Magdalene was there, and the other Mary, sitting opposite the tomb.

Young's Literal also says...


Matthew 27:57-61Young's Literal Translation (YLT)

57 And evening having come, there came a rich man, from Arimathea, named Joseph, who also himself was discipled to Jesus,
58 he having gone near to Pilate, asked for himself the body of Jesus; then Pilate commanded the body to be given back.
59 And having taken the body, Joseph wrapped it in clean linen,
60 and laid it in his new tomb, that he hewed in the rock, and having rolled a great stone to the door of the tomb, he went away;
61 and there were there Mary the Magdalene, and the other Mary, sitting over-against the sepulchre.

[Sparko]

The NKJV says "his tomb"...

Matthew 27:57-61New King James Version (NKJV)
Jesus Buried in Joseph’s Tomb

57 Now when evening had come, there came a rich man from Arimathea, named Joseph, who himself had also become a disciple of Jesus. 58 This man went to Pilate and asked for the body of Jesus. Then Pilate commanded the body to be given to him. 59 When Joseph had taken the body, he wrapped it in a clean linen cloth, 60 and laid it in his new tomb which he had hewn out of the rock; and he rolled a large stone against the door of the tomb, and departed. 61 And Mary Magdalene was there, and the other Mary, sitting opposite the tomb.

Young's Literal also says...


Matthew 27:57-61Young's Literal Translation (YLT)

57 And evening having come, there came a rich man, from Arimathea, named Joseph, who also himself was discipled to Jesus,
58 he having gone near to Pilate, asked for himself the body of Jesus; then Pilate commanded the body to be given back.
59 And having taken the body, Joseph wrapped it in clean linen,
60 and laid it in his new tomb, that he hewed in the rock, and having rolled a great stone to the door of the tomb, he went away;
61 and there were there Mary the Magdalene, and the other Mary, sitting over-against the sepulchre.

yeah funny how RC and Gary keep on about how the gospels just copied from Mark and these various details are different in each gospel, eh? sounds like independent rememberences to me.

[rogue06]

also a side issue, about the sanhedron and the claim that they would have left the body on the cross and forbade burying it.

John 19:31 Now it was the day of Preparation, and the next day was to be a special Sabbath. Because the Jewish leaders did not want the bodies left on the crosses during the Sabbath, they asked Pilate to have the legs broken and the bodies taken down. 32 The soldiers therefore came and broke the legs of the first man who had been crucified with Jesus, and then those of the other. 33 But when they came to Jesus and found that he was already dead, they did not break his legs. 34 Instead, one of the soldiers pierced Jesus’ side with a spear, bringing a sudden flow of blood and water. 35 The man who saw it has given testimony, and his testimony is true. He knows that he tells the truth, and he testifies so that you also may believe. 36 These things happened so that the scripture would be fulfilled: “Not one of his bones will be broken,”[c] 37 and, as another scripture says, “They will look on the one they have pierced.”[d]


38 Later, Joseph of Arimathea asked Pilate for the body of Jesus.

also it says Nicodemus brought the spices. Luke says the women prepared the spices later. but nobody says anyone bought spices, and only Mark even says Joseph bought the linen cloth

and the Tomb was not necessarily Josephs, but just a new tomb that was conveniently nearby

41 At the place where Jesus was crucified, there was a garden, and in the garden a new tomb, in which no one had ever been laid. 42 Because it was the Jewish day of Preparation and since the tomb was nearby, they laid Jesus there.

From the 1906 Jewish Encyclopedia, the very first sentence of which demonstrates that the idea that the Sanhedrin would have forbidden Jesus' burial is nonsense:

Source: BURIAL:

Duty of Burial

The law, therefore, requires even the criminal to be buried who has been put to death (Deut. xxi. 23). So, too, the slain enemy was buried (I Kings xi. 15; Ezek. xxxix. 15), not merely because the dead body defiled the land, but from a feeling of compassion, as is seen in the case of Rizpah (II Sam. xxi. 10; compare Josephus, "B. J." iv. 5, § 2).

While it was incumbent upon the relatives to bury their dead (Gen. xxiii. 3, xxv. 9, 1. 7; I Macc. ii. 70; Tobit vi. 15, xiv. 11), it was regarded as one of the laws of humanity "not to let any one lie unburied" (Josephus, "Contra Ap." ii. 29 [30] ; Philo, "Hypothetica," ed. Mangey, ii. 629; Bernays, "Gesammelte Schriften," i. 277 et seq., who shows this to have been also an old Athenian law of Buzyges). The Rabbis call it *** ("an obligation to the dead claiming the service of the finder") (Massek. Sem. iv. 29; Sifra, Emor, Introduction; Sifre, Num. 26; Meg. 3b; Naz. 43b, 47b, and elsewhere). Tobit devoted himself entirely to the task of burying the unclaimed bodies of the slain (Tobit i. 17, ii. 7). According to Josephus, "B. J." iii. 8, § 5, a suicide was not buried before sunset; but Ahithophel, who committed suicide, was placed in his grave in the usual manner (II Sam. xvii. 23; see Shulḥan 'Aruk, Yoreh De'ah, 345, and "Sifte Kohen," thereon; see Suicide).


Source

© Copyright Original Source

I should note that here the *** appears in this quote the Hebrew word is placed which I couldn't copy.

A bit further down in the section on the Time of Burial it states

Source:

Although the law in Deut. xxi. 23 refers only to the culprit exposed on the gallows, the rabbinical interpretation derives from it that "no corpse is to remain unburied overnight" (Sanh. vi. 4, 46a, b; Maimonides, "Abel," iv. 8; Shulḥan 'Aruk, Yoreh De'ah, 357, 1). With reference to Num. xx. 1, it is even urged that burial should follow death closely (M. Ḳ. 28a; compare Acts v. 6-10; and see Tobler, "Denkblätter aus Jerusalem," 1853, p. 325, as to the present usage: "The burial takes place within as few hours after death as possible"). "To keep the dead overnight was not permitted in the city of Jerusalem" (Tosef., Neg. vi. 2; B. Ḳ. 82b; Ab. R. N. xxxv.). Whether this was due to the climate, which causes decomposition to ensue rapidly—compare Abraham's words: "Let me bury my dead out of my sight" (Gen. xxiii. 4)—or to the defiling nature of the corpse (Num. xix. 11-14), the generally accepted view was that the acceleration of the burial was a praiseworthy act unless preparations for the honor of the dead made delay desirable (M. Ḳ. 22a; Maimonides and Yoreh De'ah, l.c.).

© Copyright Original Source

Further as New Testament scholar Craig A. Evans points out in Jewish Burial Traditions and the Resurrection of Jesus:

Source: Jewish Burial Traditions and the Resurrection of Jesus

Even the wicked and divinely judged are buried, too, such as those in the wilderness who were greedy for meat (Num 11:33–34), or individual criminals who are executed (Deut 21:22–23). Israel’s enemies, slain in battle, are buried (1 Kgs 11:15), including the eschatological enemy hosts of Gog (Ezek 39:11–16).

© Copyright Original Source

He points out how in 1:18 of the Book of Tobit (regarded as canonical by Roman Catholic and Orthodox Christians), Tobit would make sure that even those who were executed on the authority of the Assyrian king were still buried. This is reiterated in 2:3 where he buries a man who had been executed.

Evans points out that "This Jewish sense of obligation that Jews executed by gentile authorities must be buried, even at personal risk, is very significant for the present study" and follows by noting that in Against Apion Josephus takes a similar view.

He also observes that this tradition continued to be held beyond Christ's time:

Source:

Concern with proper burial continues beyond the first century. For the Rabbis burial of the dead, according to George Foot Moore, “was regarded as a duty of the highest obligation.”6 He cites b. Meg. 3b, where this duty (hwcm tm) takes precedence in the study of the Law, the circumcision of one’s son, or in the offering of the Passover lamb, and Sipre Num. §26 (on Num 6:6–8), where even a high priest or a Nazirite has the obligation to bury a “neglected corpse,” since there is no one else to do it

© Copyright Original Source

Finally, Evans brings up the importance of burying the dead "to avoid defilement of the land of Israel." So regardless of what personal feelings the Jewish authorities may have toward Jesus, for the sake of Israel they would have made sure he was buried.

Sorry for the slight derail.

[Sparko]

You should post that in Gary's thread

[rogue06]

You should post that in Gary's thread

Assuming you were talking about my post right above yours I re-posted it there as well at your request

[psstein]

I've actually thought about this a little, and I think there may be an answer similar to Adrift's. It's possible that the Marcan community and the Johannine community were on two separate calendars.

It's nearly 3 am here, so I'll have to expand upon my thought tomorrow...