End of the age. . .?

[undead]

Big problem since the Gospel of Jesus wasn't around in 175 BC:

Matthew 24:14-15 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

Matthew 24:21-23 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

So he was obviously speaking of a future end to the 70 weeks.

Exactly. The 70 weeks of suffering repeated themselves, in a secondary fulfillment. Daniel's allusion was to the original 70 weeks. Matthew was to the secondary fulfillment. If the days were shortened in the latter, its because they were shortened in the former.

My math to 69 weeks is accurate with Nehemiah and Ezra, big deals in Jewish history, on to Jesus, our Messiah in Christianity.

Maths is not particularly relevant to the bible. as God is always able to change his mind.

Because they rejected him, he cursed Jerusalem in the midst of the 70th week and ending sacrifice, one thing leading to the next as Daniel explains.

The reason for the destruction of Jerusalem was not because Christ was cut off, but because the Jews refused to repent.

Daniel 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Matthew 23:38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

Aholibah unfaithful Jerusalem is the Whore of Babylon (Ezekiel 23:17), while the Beast is Babylon 7 heads grown up (Daniel 4:16):

Revelation 17:16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.

While these people represent firstfruits of faithful Jerusalem, the Lamb's Bride:

Revelation 14:1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.

Secondary fulfillment. Not the original.

[John Goddard]

Exactly. The 70 weeks of suffering repeated themselves, in a secondary fulfillment. Daniel's allusion was to the original 70 weeks. Matthew was to the secondary fulfillment. If the days were shortened in the latter, its because they were shortened in the former.

Jesus doesn't say that the 70 weeks won't be carried out. They are limited to 70 weeks and don't go on until all flesh on earth is dead. Which is possible now for the first time in history with nukes and WMD. I don't think Antiochus was ever close to destroying all humanity.

Maths is not particularly relevant to the bible. as God is always able to change his mind.

Maybe God changed His mind about shortening your weeks and He went with mine a full 69 weeks to Jesus.

The reason for the destruction of Jerusalem was not because Christ was cut off, but because the Jews refused to repent.

As I said, they rejected him including what he said.

Matthew 4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

[undead]

I don't think Antiochus was ever close to destroying all humanity.

I think he was pretty close. Were it not for Judas Maccebees, Christ could not have been born, nor the OT prophecies fulfilled, because Judaism would have vanished from the face of the earth.

Maybe God changed His mind about shortening your weeks and He went with mine a full 69 weeks to Jesus.

No. If you calculate your dates accurately, you will find he overshot by about 10 years or more.

Now although God may foreshorten the times of trouble, he never claimed to elongate them.

As I said, they rejected him including what he said.

Matthew 4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Messiah was only cut off for 12 prophetic minutes. Then he was made alive. Look into it.

No reason for a prophecy that just dwells on the Messiah being "cut off". Tends to suggest that he wasn't the "Messiah" after all.

[TyRockwell]

But Ezra did not start work until Artaxerxes and after Nehemiah received the command to rebuild Jerusalem.

Totally false! And your reading comprehension leaves much to be desired. Ezra 7:1 is AFTER the temple was finished! It was finished in Ezra 6:15 and dedicated in the next three verses. It doesn't matter that Ezra was not there when the temple was finished. He was documenting that it was.

Ezra 7:1 Now after these things, in the reign of Artaxerxes king of Persia, Ezra the son of Seraiah, the son of Azariah, the son of Hilkiah

Ezra 7:6 This Ezra went up from Babylon; and he was a ready scribe in the law of Moses, which the LORD God of Israel had given: and the king granted him all his request, according to the hand of the LORD his God upon him.

Now the rebuilding of the city starts!

Nehemiah 8:1 And all the people gathered themselves together as one man into the street that was before the water gate; and they spake unto Ezra the scribe to bring the book of the law of Moses, which the LORD had commanded to Israel.

This means what it says. They brought the book of the law to Israel. They did so after the temple was finished. Cyrus' decree gave the measurements of the temple long before the book of the law was brought to the finished temple.

The end of it will be with a flood.

Revelation 12:15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.

Rev. 12 has nothing to do with Daniel 9 except the word 'flood.' Sheesh, get some understanding.

The flood is the keeping of Israel from Christ and thus continued desolation of unacceptable sacrifices, until Jesus returns to redeem the faithful remnant.

The flood was Satan trying to wipe put the Jews between 66Ad and their full dipersion early in the second century AD.

Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Christians suffered from satan's use of the Roman government too.

[John Goddard]

I think he was pretty close. Were it not for Judas Maccebees, Christ could not have been born, nor the OT prophecies fulfilled, because Judaism would have vanished from the face of the earth.

Maybe, maybe not. And Roman destruction in 70 AD was much worse than that. However still not to the extent it will be at the end foretold Revelation when no flesh would be saved if the return of Jesus is delayed. That's who most of us Christians look for to save the world from complete destruction by the Gentile Beast, not Maccebees.

No. If you calculate your dates accurately, you will find he overshot by about 10 years or more. Now although God may foreshorten the times of trouble, he never claimed to elongate them.

If we go with 445 BC Nehemiah as you say 483 years ahead that is 38 AD.

But the prophecy calculation is 1260 days (Revelation 11:3) / 3.5 years (midst of week Daniel 9:27) = 360 day years.

483 x 360 = 173880 days, or 476 of our 365 day years.

476 years from 445 BC is about 31 AD. So it's dead on with believed time of Jesus.

Messiah was only cut off for 12 prophetic minutes. Then he was made alive. Look into it.

He's not here ruling over most Jews or a lot of other people, that doesn't happen until he returns. Until then he is cut off from them.

Daniel 9:26 ...Messiah be cut off, but not for himself...

No reason for a prophecy that just dwells on the Messiah being "cut off". Tends to suggest that he wasn't the "Messiah" after all.

Why would it suggest that if Daniel calls him Messiah, that makes no sense. But it concludes with Jesus returning as explained.

[John Goddard]

Totally false! And your reading comprehension leaves much to be desired. Ezra 7:1 is AFTER the temple was finished! It was finished in Ezra 6:15 and dedicated in the next three verses. It doesn't matter that Ezra was not there when the temple was finished. He was documenting that it was.

Now the rebuilding of the city starts!

The work of Ezra to restore Jews to the Law started Nehemiah 8:2 which is after Nehemiah received the command (Nehemiah 2:6) and the wall was built (Nehemiah 6:15).

Rev. 12 has nothing to do with Daniel 9 except the word 'flood.' Sheesh, get some understanding.

The flood was Satan trying to wipe put the Jews between 66Ad and their full dipersion early in the second century AD.

It continues to the end of desolation when Jesus returns. Until then unbelieving Jews are desolate with no sacrifice from the calves of their lips.

Christians suffered from satan's use of the Roman government too.

But they could still offer acceptable sacrifice, which is what this desolation is all about: rejecting Jesus the High Priest like Melchizedek who atones for your sins. Going any other way is like a thief, right, so Jews are desolate and barren, without fruit of repentance unless they accept him. So desolation is far from over, not until Jesus returns.

[undead]

Maybe, maybe not. And Roman destruction in 70 AD was much worse than that.

You say start of 70th week in AD 30s and end of week in AD 70. Back to where we started. You manipulating dates and times just to suit your own interpretation. Doesn't convince anyone.

BTW, Daniel never said a year = 360 days. Now if that is the basis of prophecy, it really does make God look stupid.

[John Goddard]

You say start of 70th week in AD 30s and end of week in AD 70. Back to where we started. You manipulating dates and times just to suit your own interpretation. Doesn't convince anyone.

BTW, Daniel never said a year = 360 days. Now if that is the basis of prophecy, it really does make God look stupid.

No I say start 3.5 years Jesus' ministry, stop crucifixion and curse of Jerusalem.

Start 3.5 years before Jesus returns with the two prophets cursing the earth and final punishment of Jerusalem.

Since when is everything in prophecy spelled out? Though it doesn't take a miracle to see.

Revelation 11:2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

42 months / 12 months of a year= 3.5 years.

Revelation 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

1260 days/42 months = 30 days in a month

12 months x 30 days = 360 days in a year

1260 days / 360 days = 3.5 years

483 x 360 = 173880 days, or 476 of our 365 day years.

476 years from 445 BC is about 31 AD, Jesus.

Simple.

[TyRockwell]

The work of Ezra to restore Jews to the Law started Nehemiah 8:2 which is after Nehemiah received the command (Nehemiah 2:6) and the wall was built (Nehemiah 6:15).

Daniel's prophecy had no role for Ezra. The temple was built and dedicated before he arrived with the books of the law. That fulfilled the prophecy of restoring and rebuilding Jerusalem, temple first. If they needed the law they would not have dedicated the temple before Ezra brought it.

It continues to the end of desolation when Jesus returns. Until then unbelieving Jews are desolate with no sacrifice from the calves of their lips.

You are twisting Daniel 9:26-27 to suit your twisted understanding. It does not say, 'until the end of desolations.'

It says that the decreed destuction, the end, will be poured out on the temple. That happened in 70 AD. It was the end of the temple. No physical temple means no more desolation, because our bodies are now the temple of the Holy Spirit.

But they could still offer acceptable sacrifice, which is what this desolation is all about: rejecting Jesus the High Priest like Melchizedek who atones for your sins. Going any other way is like a thief, right, so Jews are desolate and barren, without fruit of repentance unless they accept him. So desolation is far from over, not until Jesus returns.

Your 'fruit of calves' is nonsense. Even if the temple still stood it would be invalid to sacrifice blood there. The first desolation, "Behold your house is left to you desolate!" happened when Jesus gave up his spirit on the cross and the veil of the temple was torn, because the Most Holy Place had become desolate, meaning empty of the Holy Spirit, which the torn veil revealed.

The 42 months the two witnesses minister is not the second half of the 70th week. It is the time of the mature of the church fulfilling, "he that believes in me, the works that I have been doing, he will do also; and greater works than these shall he do because I go to the Father." Jesus ministry was 42 months and so will be the mature, full stature church.

[John Goddard]

Daniel's prophecy had no role for Ezra. The temple was built and dedicated before he arrived with the books of the law. That fulfilled the prophecy of restoring and rebuilding Jerusalem, temple first. If they needed the law they would not have dedicated the temple before Ezra brought it.

But Daniel's prophecy is about rebuilding the city not just the Temple, and even the walls of the city.

Daniel 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

Nehemiah 12:26 These were in the days of Joiakim the son of Jeshua, the son of Jozadak, and in the days of Nehemiah the governor, and of Ezra the priest, the scribe.

Nehemiah 12:27 And at the dedication of the wall of Jerusalem they sought the Levites out of all their places, to bring them to Jerusalem, to keep the dedication with gladness, both with thanksgivings, and with singing, with cymbals, psalteries, and with harps.

And again, Ezra started work after Nehemiah received the decree as I've shown.

You are twisting Daniel 9:26-27 to suit your twisted understanding. It does not say, 'until the end of desolations.'

It says that the decreed destuction, the end, will be poured out on the temple. That happened in 70 AD.

You aren't going to get an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, with most Jews STILL being desolate and without Jesus. So that all ends when he returns.

Daniel 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

Your 'fruit of calves' is nonsense. Even if the temple still stood it would be invalid to sacrifice blood there. The first desolation, "Behold your house is left to you desolate!" happened when Jesus gave up his spirit on the cross and the veil of the temple was torn, because the Most Holy Place had become desolate, meaning empty of the Holy Spirit, which the torn veil revealed.

The end of desolation will only happen when all bow to Jesus, then all will be able to make an acceptable sacrifice through him as High Priest. So, not yet.