The Best books about CHURCH HISTORY

[headheart]

Dear TWebbers,

Over the last few years my interest in 'Church History' has grown more and more intense and some of the books that I have read over that time have examined the subject of Church History from as many angles. Each writer looks at the subject through their particular bias and in the end though some present extremely compelling conclusions about the subject, ultimately one is left to puzzle together the parts of the puzzle from those first believers to our time.

Of course the joy of reading older books is that one has the benefit of being able to see if they were right in their assumptions as to what the future might hold, for it seems that Church historians love to make predictions about that.

I started reading Philip Schaff's books but have taken a bit of a break from them, primarily because I was informed by certain Roman Catholic readers that there are better books on the subject, and of course there is the rich library of the Early Church fathers. Howbeit some conclusions made by latter historians who rejected the histories of the Roman Catholic Church have tended to be, at least in their eyes, presenting a false picture of where the Church is headed and the role of traditions etc.etce.etc.

As I am not rolling in the buckaroos, but am very interested in reading some good books on the subject, I would greatly welcome either online information (under recommendation, for I have certainly searched on my own, but an informed view is the view I seek, that is if such noble minds decide to attend these threads), be they pdf, word or other, papers or books etc. Obviously video or audio would be splendid and if you are a wizz and want to just present some leading ideas as well as links and recommendations, I would greatly appreciate it. The remainder of this thread might consist of perhaps delving into aspects of Church History that have never been finalized.

Headheart.

[mostlyharmless]

Get borrowing privileges at whichever local seminary has the best library and then read all the stuff you want. All the best books are in print, not online.

[TyRockwell]

Dear TWebbers,

Over the last few years my interest in 'Church History' has grown more and more intense and some of the books that I have read over that time have examined the subject of Church History from as many angles. Each writer looks at the subject through their particular bias and in the end though some present extremely compelling conclusions about the subject, ultimately one is left to puzzle together the parts of the puzzle from those first believers to our time.

Of course the joy of reading older books is that one has the benefit of being able to see if they were right in their assumptions as to what the future might hold, for it seems that Church historians love to make predictions about that.

I started reading Philip Schaff's books but have taken a bit of a break from them, primarily because I was informed by certain Roman Catholic readers that there are better books on the subject, and of course there is the rich library of the Early Church fathers. Howbeit some conclusions made by latter historians who rejected the histories of the Roman Catholic Church have tended to be, at least in their eyes, presenting a false picture of where the Church is headed and the role of traditions etc.etce.etc.

As I am not rolling in the buckaroos, but am very interested in reading some good books on the subject, I would greatly welcome either online information (under recommendation, for I have certainly searched on my own, but an informed view is the view I seek, that is if such noble minds decide to attend these threads), be they pdf, word or other, papers or books etc. Obviously video or audio would be splendid and if you are a wizz and want to just present some leading ideas as well as links and recommendations, I would greatly appreciate it. The remainder of this thread might consist of perhaps delving into aspects of Church History that have never been finalized.

Headheart.

Last I heard, Church history is ongoing. ...to be continued until the end!

[headheart]

Get borrowing privileges at whichever local seminary has the best library and then read all the stuff you want. All the best books are in print, not online.

Actually all the best books are either old or out of print. Are you sure Seminary books are the type that present an unbiased point of view ? The idea is not to read further biased literature but to read some that paints as it were with a broader brush. What do you think of Philip Schaff's histories ( try ccel.org ) ?

Any thoughts on my final question ? (....aspects of Church History that have never been finalized.)


Headheart

[headheart]

Last I heard, Church history is ongoing. ...to be continued until the end!

Events are ongoing, but history is the record of past events, either verified or not etc.

[TyRockwell]

Events are ongoing, but history is the record of past events, either verified or not etc.

I agree with that statement, as far as it goes. I was expecting your response so I could add:

Church history is a record of its growth to maturity in order to accomplish what God's word reveals that we are to do.

On the other hand, the Bible shows us where we are headed, as we do what God intends. It is pre-written history, and as such is the Best Book on church history!

[One Bad Pig]

Actually all the best books are either old or out of print.

I'd think the best books would stay in print.

Are you sure Seminary books are the type that present an unbiased point of view ? The idea is not to read further biased literature but to read some that paints as it were with a broader brush.

Sorry, ALL points of view are biased. Your best bet is to read as extensively as possible, from the East as well as the West. Here's a snippet from the East.

What do you think of Philip Schaff's histories ( try ccel.org ) ?

I haven't gotten around to reading those yet.

Any thoughts on my final question ? (....aspects of Church History that have never been finalized.)


Headheart

I'm not quite sure what you're getting at with that question.

[mostlyharmless]

Actually all the best books are either old or out of print. Are you sure Seminary books are the type that present an unbiased point of view ? The idea is not to read further biased literature but to read some that paints as it were with a broader brush. What do you think of Philip Schaff's histories ( try ccel.org ) ?

Any thoughts on my final question ? (....aspects of Church History that have never been finalized.)

I think you will find seminaries full of out of print books . And anything that you find online will be in a good seminary so I don't quite understand your bias against these places. If you want good books on Christian religion you naturally should look in a Christian library. I have read the translation of ECF's on ccel.org which are a good starting point though very outdated in translation.

Have not read Schaff's histories as they are pretty old. I greatly enjoyed Jaroslav Pelikan who is celebrated for his mastery of Christian history and doctrine. All historical writing is biased by its very nature so there is no point trying to escape that, its better that the writer is just honest about their biases so the reader can take certain aspects of their view with a grain of salt.

Your other question is to broad to be answerable.

[headheart]

................the Best Book on church history!

I would not disagree with you, but surely you must recognize the historical value of the apocryphal writings as well as the writings of secular historians and the Early Church Fathers as well as the history of the Church after the book of Acts, until now ?

Headheart

[headheart]

I'd think the best books would stay in print.

I have a few books and others that I have lost (what a foolish man) that are no longer in print and cover apects of Church History that are insightful simply because of their age. Over the years though I have noticed some of the books I treasure appear on the internet. (This is unrelated, but I wish I could get a hold of John D. Woodbridges library. I recently missed a golden opportunity at aquiring a library of books like this. Bother!)

Sorry, ALL points of view are biased. Your best bet is to read as extensively as possible, from the East as well as the West.

[/quote]

Well, you can't blame a boy for dreaming. Perhaps if I read widely enough I can write one like that Actually, I am sure that there are books like that but one has to read an awful lot to make any final conclusions. It is all so exciting, though I guess my sons would not agree

Here's a snippet from the East.

It is moments like this that really keep me coming back to forums like this. I am bursting with enthusiasm to add this to my current reading list. Thank-you so much!

(((This page was originally created by monks at Decani Monastery in Kosovo.))) < they certainly had the time :)

I haven't gotten around to reading those yet.

I think you will enjoy it, if not for the fact that it presents yet another perspective on Church History. I think it creates a very good framework upon which to explore the details and add the gaps and perspectives of others. Oh goodness me I am not going to do this, I can see myself being drawn into writing yet another book. I just do not have the time or strength to weather twenty years or so. My current write has been in the fire for nearly seven years (actually I lost count)

I'm not quite sure what you're getting at with that question.

Well, if one has a broad reading of Church History these would become more apparent, I mean I conclude this based on the fact that such difficulties have been negotiated in relation to the gospels by textual critics, who have pretty much resolved all the major issues. In the same way it is my conclusion that with all traditions there is this ongoing examination of their historical, geographical, archeological accuracy and veracity etc.

Headheart.

[headheart]

I think you will find seminaries full of out of print books . And anything that you find online will be in a good seminary so I don't quite understand your bias against these places. If you want good books on Christian religion you naturally should look in a Christian library. I have read the translation of ECF's on ccel.org which are a good starting point though very outdated in translation.

Undeniably there is immense value in the writings of the Early Church Fathers. I guess my only reason for avoiding Seminaries is because as with every institution, there is always a primary thrust that one has to take into consideration when delving into a particular archive, I just want to avoid getting swamped with too many singular perspectives and instead read something that has already negotiated the many conflicting opinions on aspects of Church History. Perhaps though I will find such documents at a particular Seminary, University, Bible College, Monastry or maybe a friend who has negotiated the various perspectives already. Savvy?

Have not read Schaff's histories as they are pretty old.

Oh. I cannot help myself, I am deeply attracted to that word..."OLD"

I greatly enjoyed Jaroslav Pelikan who is celebrated for his mastery of Christian history and doctrine.

Now that is a name I have never heard. Titles ?

All historical writing is biased by its very nature so there is no point trying to escape that, ....

I think you might have written it this way and I would have agreed with you.

'Most historical writing is biased by it's very nature, but this can be rectified if enough eye witness documents agree on essentials.'

.......its better that the writer is just honest about their biases so the reader can take certain aspects of their view with a grain of salt.

Oh, yes that is most refreshing. In particular I enjoy C.S. Lewis in this regard.

Your other question is to broad to be answerable.

I am aware of that, it might be better to start another thread delving into aspects of Church History that have never been finalized.

off-topic: Do you have a copy of the Targum Neofiti ref: Catholic Encyclopedia ---> Hagiographa chaldaice ?

Headheart

[TyRockwell]

I would not disagree with you, but surely you must recognize the historical value of the apocryphal writings as well as the writings of secular historians and the Early Church Fathers as well as the history of the Church after the book of Acts, until now ?

Headheart

I see the importance of the apocryphal books and historians, secular or religious.

However, I think most of the 'ECFs' writings are interpretive and commentary and have introduced many errors.

TyRockwell

[TyRockwell]

I think you will enjoy it, if not for the fact that it presents yet another perspective on Church History. I think it creates a very good framework upon which to explore the details and add the gaps and perspectives of others. Oh goodness me I am not going to do this, I can see myself being drawn into writing yet another book. I just do not have the time or strength to weather twenty years or so. My current write has been in the fire for nearly seven years (actually I lost count)



Well, if one has a broad reading of Church History these would become more apparent, I mean I conclude this based on the fact that such difficulties have been negotiated in relation to the gospels by textual critics, who have pretty much resolved all the major issues. In the same way it is my conclusion that with all traditions there is this ongoing examination of their historical, geographical, archeological accuracy and veracity etc.

Headheart.

What books have you written? Are they available online?

[headheart]

I see the importance of the apocryphal books and historians, secular or religious.

Yes.

However, I think most of the 'ECFs' writings are interpretive and commentary and have introduced many errors.

I might have written your statement this way, 'However, I think [some] of the ECF's writings are interpretive and commentary and have introduced [some] errors. Would you please mention some of these ECF's and their errors ?

Headheart

[headheart]

What books have you written?

This should probably go under my profile. :O)

With the help of the Lord....

I have written a bit about the Occult and the Cults, as well as short story, "Abraxas to Jesus" (my testimony). I also wrote an expose about the 'Purpose Driven Life" (circa. 2004) and helped in preparing two books for the internet, one is about 'Eternal Preservation' and the other one is about 'Satan'. ( Anything I have not linked to you will find at Delusion Resistance )

Over the last seven years I have been working on a book about death, resurrection and the afterlife and hope I live long enough firstly to finish it, and secondly to attend to the many errors in my earlier writings. (((Retractions))

My main outlet onto the internet is through music, though I love writing poetry and drawing with pastels. I have to date recorded eight Cd's. link and recently recorded an album in Los Angeles with Mike Pachelli and Randy Stonehill at Fullblast Studios, titled, "Peace Dove".

Headheart