Escaping the Afterlife

[Progeny]

What if Christianity is correct, and my lack of faith will ultimately lead to my eternal damnation in the fires of hell? Or if, maybe, I'll spend some well-deserved time in purgatory? Or if, (long shot) somehow I earned a spot in God's shining glory in Heaven, despite my contempt for religion?

What if none of those options appeal to me... What if I want to escape my fate in the afterlife, assuming one exists?

Enter Cryonics!

Supposing that my body, or even my mind, was immediately put into a state of cryopreservation following the cessation of my vital signs... what would happen? Keep in mind that when somebody dies, they can be recussitated for a decent period of time afterward, as long as the brain has not suffered too much damage. So why not hit the 'save' button on life, put my brain on ice, and reload a few decades down the road, when the technology exists to safely revive me, properly recussitate me, and then go on to improve my state of health.

I can think of three ways it could go:

1) The freezing process or revival fails, causing irreparable brain damage, killing me.
2) God, if he exists, says "Forget this!" He intervenes, ripping my soul from my frozen body.
3) The whole process succeeds. My eternal fate has been averted! I found the grand loophole in God's plan!

I do not truly, irreversibly die until my brain no longer holds the information that my personality and consciousness are composed of. If the brain, still containing me in every sense of the word, is frozen, or more properly, vitrified, before the cells begin to die, I am still alive by many definitions. The technology is by no means in its infancy, and several organizations are already performing the process commercially. Obviously it will become safer and more effective over time, but it is already becoming a realistic alternative to... death!

Unless you assume that a person's soul abandons them whenever they even draw close to death (near death experiences of those who experience heart failure, etc), then this should be a concept that unsettles quite a few of the more religious people amoung us.

Could a person live a life of evil... or of good... and still escape their eternal destiny?

[Theostudent]

What if Christianity is correct, and my lack of faith will ultimately lead to my eternal damnation in the fires of hell? Or if, maybe, I'll spend some well-deserved time in purgatory? Or if, (long shot) somehow I earned a spot in God's shining glory in Heaven, despite my contempt for religion?

What if none of those options appeal to me... What if I want to escape my fate in the afterlife, assuming one exists?

Enter Cryonics!

Supposing that my body, or even my mind, was immediately put into a state of cryopreservation following the cessation of my vital signs... what would happen? Keep in mind that when somebody dies, they can be recussitated for a decent period of time afterward, as long as the brain has not suffered too much damage. So why not hit the 'save' button on life, put my brain on ice, and reload a few decades down the road, when the technology exists to safely revive me, properly recussitate me, and then go on to improve my state of health.

I can think of three ways it could go:

1) The freezing process or revival fails, causing irreparable brain damage, killing me.
2) God, if he exists, says "Forget this!" He intervenes, ripping my soul from my frozen body.
3) The whole process succeeds. My eternal fate has been averted! I found the grand loophole in God's plan!

I do not truly, irreversibly die until my brain no longer holds the information that my personality and consciousness are composed of. If the brain, still containing me in every sense of the word, is frozen, or more properly, vitrified, before the cells begin to die, I am still alive by many definitions. The technology is by no means in its infancy, and several organizations are already performing the process commercially. Obviously it will become safer and more effective over time, but it is already becoming a realistic alternative to... death!

Unless you assume that a person's soul abandons them whenever they even draw close to death (near death experiences of those who experience heart failure, etc), then this should be a concept that unsettles quite a few of the more religious people amoung us.

Could a person live a life of evil... or of good... and still escape their eternal destiny?

Where would you store the body?

[Progeny]

Where would you store the body?

Why, in tubes, of course!

Actually, in a large dewar, or vacuum flask.

Insulated container, requires no electric power, but needs a supply of liquid nitrogen that is occasionally replenished. Doesn't take up much room, can be moved without a great degree of difficulty. They keep them in storage on the grounds of the organization that performs the process, I believe.

Also, it's downright stylish! Escape God's wrath, and look good while doing it!

[Seri]

Depending on which view you take, "your eternal fate" could just be death. Not torture in hell, but eternal death. It's in the Bible quite a few times as such. The part that's unclear is if that means "lights out, nobody's ever gonna be home" or "I'm stuck forever in a corpse." A good deal of the Bible seems to operate on the premise of there being no soul, but rather that the body itself is what rises at the judgment. It is ambiguous if "eternal death" is any different from the viewpoint that most atheists subscribe to already.

[Progeny]

Depending on which view you take, "your eternal fate" could just be death. Not torture in hell, but eternal death. It's in the Bible quite a few times as such. The part that's unclear is if that means "lights out, nobody's ever gonna be home" or "I'm stuck forever in a corpse." A good deal of the Bible seems to operate on the premise of there being no soul, but rather that the body itself is what rises at the judgment. It is ambiguous if "eternal death" is any different from the viewpoint that most atheists subscribe to already.

Fair enough, but my question stands...

Through cryopreservation, could a person escape that fate, be it Heaven, Hell, Purgatory, or Death itself? What if I never technically die, but rather keep my mind healthy in stasis until such a time when it can be revived and renewed, to a time where life-extension technologies are able to grant me a temporary escape from death? What if I continue doing this indefinitely, until finally God takes me down Himself on Judgement Day?

Whatever our alleged fate, I believe it can be circumvented.

[Chaotic Void]

What if Christianity is correct, and my lack of faith will ultimately lead to my eternal damnation in the fires of hell? Or if, maybe, I'll spend some well-deserved time in purgatory? Or if, (long shot) somehow I earned a spot in God's shining glory in Heaven, despite my contempt for religion?

What if none of those options appeal to me... What if I want to escape my fate in the afterlife, assuming one exists?

Enter Cryonics!

Supposing that my body, or even my mind, was immediately put into a state of cryopreservation following the cessation of my vital signs... what would happen? Keep in mind that when somebody dies, they can be recussitated for a decent period of time afterward, as long as the brain has not suffered too much damage. So why not hit the 'save' button on life, put my brain on ice, and reload a few decades down the road, when the technology exists to safely revive me, properly recussitate me, and then go on to improve my state of health.

I can think of three ways it could go:

1) The freezing process or revival fails, causing irreparable brain damage, killing me.
2) God, if he exists, says "Forget this!" He intervenes, ripping my soul from my frozen body.
3) The whole process succeeds. My eternal fate has been averted! I found the grand loophole in God's plan!

I do not truly, irreversibly die until my brain no longer holds the information that my personality and consciousness are composed of. If the brain, still containing me in every sense of the word, is frozen, or more properly, vitrified, before the cells begin to die, I am still alive by many definitions. The technology is by no means in its infancy, and several organizations are already performing the process commercially. Obviously it will become safer and more effective over time, but it is already becoming a realistic alternative to... death!

Unless you assume that a person's soul abandons them whenever they even draw close to death (near death experiences of those who experience heart failure, etc), then this should be a concept that unsettles quite a few of the more religious people amoung us.

Could a person live a life of evil... or of good... and still escape their eternal destiny?

I'd say no...

Even if said method was successful and someone was able to preserve themselves for millenia or until the end of time, [Is there even the resources to do so? I doubt it] once our universe ends everything's going to die.

And, why spend money at all on finding ways to deliberately try to cheat death when we have more important things to research? Why not spend more time/money researching a method of growing crops in harsh conditions? How about on better fuels, or more efficient ways to consume the fuel we already have?

And by the way, it doesn't unsettle me... It amuses me how people are willing to do and waste so much to try and delay the inevitable.

[And on a side note, why the contempt for Religion?]
[And on another side note, Do you believe in a literal Fire n Flames Hell?]

[Soyeong]

Heaven and Earth will pass away, meaning your tubes will be destroyed.

[Progeny]

Even if said method was successful and someone was able to preserve themselves for millenia or until the end of time, (Is there even the resources to do so? I doubt it) once our universe ends everything's going to die.

A valid point... however, depending on who you ask, that could be a long time. If I'm waiting for the universe to end, I'm going to have a lifespan of quite a few years, 'cause the universe isn't going to run out of Nitrogen anytime soon.. If I live to a billion, I think I'll be content.

Either that or God starts stirring things up early, Apocalypse and all that jazz, in which case I've proved my point anyway. "You want me, God? Come get me!"

And, why spend money at all on finding ways to deliberately try to cheat death when we have more important things to research? Why not spend more time/money researching a method of growing crops in harsh conditions? How about on better fuels, or more efficient ways to consume the fuel we already have?

Why spend money on developing a cure for cancer? Why spend money on new vaccines? Why spend money on health care in general? Because Humanity is trying to improve our quality and length of life. Cancer is natural, so why should we try to cheat death by pursuing a cure? Because we value life. If some Christians choose to complete neglect their health because they believe death will bring something greater, that's up to them, but the majority of humanity, whether they look forward to an afterlife or not, will continue to pursue longer lives.

And by the way, it doesn't unsettle me... It amuses me how people are willing to do and waste so much to try and delay the inevitable.

Good point. I mean, Christians are all going to Heaven anyway, am I right? So why don't you committ mass suicide, to offset all this awful waiting? Honestly, everyone knows their going to die, but that doesn't prevent them from trying to make their lives as long and fulfilling as possible.

And on a side note, why the contempt for Religion?

Quite a number of reasons, but none of them are relevant. I don't want to turn this into an attempt to bash any sort of religion, so I'll refrain from answering this one.

And on another side note, Do you believe in a literal Fire n Flames Hell?

I don't believe in any sort of Hell. I don't believe in any sort of Heaven. I believe that this life is probably all that we have, and thus we should make the most out of it... hence my interest in cryonics.

However, the point I'm trying to make with this thread is that - if Heaven or Hell exists - I can hypothetically avoid them both, at least for a very long period of time. God - should he exist - is going to have to destroy the whole Earth and everyone on it to claim me, 'cause I'm not going without a fight. I'll eventually end up wherever I'm destined to be... but I think I'll stick it out 'till Judgement Day, at least.

[Lazarus]

Sounds like you already have all the answers. I wish you luck.

[Progeny]

Sounds like you already have all the answers. I wish you luck.

I appreciate your support, be it sarcastic or not.

Maybe I should narrow the question down though... I honestly want a Christian response to this concept.

In order for this to work, one's consciousness, or "soul," has to be retained by the body when the brain is frozen. My question, then, is this:

Does your soul leave your body when your heart dies? Or when your mind dies? Or when God decides is most convenient for Him?

Would a person frozen wake up as a soulless abomination? Or would their soul stay within the body until thawed? Or would the soul float up to Heaven upon freezing and then be jolted back into the body on the moment of revival?

Really, I'm curious as to your opinions: When does life end, and the afterlife begin?

[element771]

When the sun encompasses the earth or some accidentally forgets to pay the electric bill for the cryo plant....then you may be in trouble.

Even the universe will not live forever, so you really can't escape your fate (only postpone it).

[element771]

I appreciate your support, be it sarcastic or not.

Maybe I should narrow the question down though... I honestly want a Christian response to this concept.

In order for this to work, one's consciousness, or "soul," has to be retained by the body when the brain is frozen. My question, then, is this:

Does your soul leave your body when your heart dies? Or when your mind dies? Or when God decides is most convenient for Him?

Would a person frozen wake up as a soulless abomination? Or would their soul stay within the body until thawed? Or would the soul float up to Heaven upon freezing and then be jolted back into the body on the moment of revival?

Really, I'm curious as to your opinions: When does life end, and the afterlife begin?

There have been some weird reports of near death experiences that are veridical (able to externally corroborated and are not just internal experiences) in nature when someone's heart and brain stop....then their soul seems to go back to their body when it comes back to life. Not sure if these are credible but they are interested to say the least.

[Chaotic Void]

A valid point... however, depending on who you ask, that could be a long time. If I'm waiting for the universe to end, I'm going to have a lifespan of quite a few years, 'cause the universe isn't going to run out of Nitrogen anytime soon.. If I live to a billion, I think I'll be content.

Assuming that the Predestined End isn't near.

Either that or God starts stirring things up early, Apocalypse and all that jazz, in which case I've proved my point anyway. "You want me, God? Come get me!"

Yeah, I doubt that he's going to bring about the apocalypse and loose the Devil from bondage just because a bunch of schmucks have frozen their brains trying to cheat the inevitable.

Why spend money on developing a cure for cancer? Why spend money on new vaccines? Why spend money on health care in general? Because Humanity is trying to improve our quality and length of life. Cancer is natural, so why should we try to cheat death by pursuing a cure? Because we value life. If some Christians choose to complete neglect their health because they believe death will bring something greater, that's up to them, but the majority of humanity, whether they look forward to an afterlife or not, will continue to pursue longer lives.

Christians have the most reasons to improve the quality and length of life, so I don't see why they would want to neglect their health. The LaHaye and Jenkins Fan Club, maybe; but meh...

Good point. I mean, Christians are all going to Heaven anyway, am I right? So why don't you committ mass suicide, to offset all this awful waiting? Honestly, everyone knows they're going to die, but that doesn't prevent them from trying to make their lives as long and fulfilling as possible

.
This old Canard about "Why don't Christians commit mass suicide"?
I answered it months ago... We don't commit mass-suicide because our time is better spent on the Great Commission and serving others. Which includes, by the way, improving the quality and length of people's lives. The afterlife is simply the "Cherry on Top."

Oh, and fixed your spelling. [Sorry, I couldn't resist]

Quite a number of reasons, but none of them are relevant. I don't want to turn this into an attempt to bash any sort of religion, so I'll refrain from answering this one.

Eh, no biggie. Can always Private Message me or start a new thread on the topic if you want.

I don't believe in any sort of Hell. I don't believe in any sort of Heaven. I believe that this life is probably all that we have, and thus we should make the most out of it... hence my interest in cryonics.

Why would a Theist not believe in an afterlife?

However, the point I'm trying to make with this thread is that - if Heaven or Hell exists - I can hypothetically avoid them both, at least for a very long period of time. God - should he exist - is going to have to destroy the whole Earth and everyone on it to claim me, 'cause I'm not going without a fight. I'll eventually end up wherever I'm destined to be... but I think I'll stick it out 'till Judgement Day, at least.

He's going to end this universe when the time he has already chosen comes, and it won't be because some morons have it in their head that they can flip the bird at him by going in an ice block for a bazillion years. Unless you think you're that special or something...

[Progeny]

Yeah, I doubt that he's going to bring about the apocalypse and loose the Devil from bondage just because a bunch of schmucks have frozen their brains trying to cheat the inevitable.

He's going to end this universe when the time he has already chosen comes, and it won't be because some morons have it in their head that they can flip the bird at him by going in an ice block for a bazillion years. Unless you think you're that special or something...

I suppose I was a little unclear... By no means do I think God's actions would be influenced at all by a group of people pursuing immortality. I'm saying that - barring accidents - God's not going to take them the old fashioned way, and they could hypothetically still be kicking around on Judgement Day.

Christians have the most reasons to improve the quality and length of life, so I don't see why they would want to neglect their health. The LaHaye and Jenkins Fan Club, maybe; but meh...

This old Canard about "Why don't Christians commit mass suicide"?
I answered it months ago... We don't commit mass-suicide because our time is better spent on the Great Commission and serving others. Which includes, by the way, improving the quality and length of people's lives. The afterlife is simply the "Cherry on Top."

Sounds exactly right. I'm just asserting that people pursue cryonics for exactly the same reason as they pursue any other sort of medical research, and that it is also no more of a "waste" or a "cheat" than any other sort of medical research. As a matter of fact, if Christians are in fact concerned about quality and length of life, one would think they would put their full support behind cryonics.

On another note, I would think that Heaven, the afterlife, an eternity in the presence of an omnipotent force of power and love would mean a little more to the Christian faith than the "Cherry on Top."

Why would a Theist not believe in an afterlife?

Whoever said I was a Theist? Humanity forges its own destiny, as far as I'm concerned. I'm just suspending my disbelief for the moment and trying to get the Christian perspective on delaying the afterlife through cryonics.

[lilpixieofterror]

You do know that machinery does break, right?