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Pedophilia - The Next Taboo To Fall?

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  • consent morality is a dead end, which isn't a surprise because it was invented by liberals. Agreeing to sexual acts is a necessary but far from sufficient condition for their morality (or legality). Liberals and Sparko try to get around it by claiming that actually that 13 year old who can consent can't REALLY consent, which is dumb and like all dumb arguments will eventually get pedophilia legalized (I suspect that was the reason why it was introduced in the first place).
    "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

    There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

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    • Originally posted by Darth Executor View Post
      consent morality is a dead end, which isn't a surprise because it was invented by liberals. Agreeing to sexual acts is a necessary but far from sufficient condition for their morality (or legality). Liberals and Sparko try to get around it by claiming that actually that 13 year old who can consent can't REALLY consent, which is dumb and like all dumb arguments will eventually get pedophilia legalized (I suspect that was the reason why it was introduced in the first place).
      One doesn’t have to be a liberal to understand basic morality, although it helps.

      Adults manipulating even teenage victims for sex is not a form of relationship, it's abuse. Child sexual abuse is never consensual, whatever the victim's behaviour or apparent willingness to participate.
      “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

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      • Originally posted by seer View Post
        It would not surprise me, would it surprise you?
        Yes, it would, at least in the U.S. Although child marriages have been part of some religions in the west, and are still widely practiced in middle eastern and developing countries, it is deeply anathema to western mindsets. That may someday change, but I cannot imagine it in my lifetime (though that is increasingly shorter these days...). The prohibition is too deeply rooted in our western culture and psyche.
        The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

        I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

        Comment


        • Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
          Perhaps because you're emotion-posting. Your arguments have been terrible, which is the only reason I'm countering them. There are good arguments to be made for your position - you just haven't been making them.
          then help me out instead of playing devil's advocate.

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          • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
            One doesn’t have to be a liberal to understand basic morality, although it helps.

            Adults manipulating even teenage victims for sex is not a form of relationship, it's abuse. Child sexual abuse is never consensual, whatever the victim's behaviour or apparent willingness to participate.
            Tassman and I actually agree. I am sure this is a sign of the apocalypse.

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            • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
              Tassman and I actually agree. I am sure this is a sign of the apocalypse.
              4FourHorsemen.gif

              I'm always still in trouble again

              "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
              "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
              "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

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              • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                then help me out instead of playing devil's advocate.
                Sorry. Sometimes I'm too INTJ.
                Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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                I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

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                • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                  One doesn’t have to be a liberal to understand basic morality, although it helps.
                  Baloney. Liberals today have no sense of basic morality at all.

                  Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                  Adults manipulating even teenage victims for sex is not a form of relationship, it's abuse. Child sexual abuse is never consensual, whatever the victim's behaviour or apparent willingness to participate.
                  It is true that pedophilia is abuse, and that apparent willingness is the result of manipulation. The point is that focusing on whether or not a 13 year old can consent is not a productive way to fight the evil that is child sexual abuse.
                  Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

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                  • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                    Yes, it would, at least in the U.S. Although child marriages have been part of some religions in the west, and are still widely practiced in middle eastern and developing countries, it is deeply anathema to western mindsets. That may someday change, but I cannot imagine it in my lifetime (though that is increasingly shorter these days...). The prohibition is too deeply rooted in our western culture and psyche.
                    That day may arrive sooner than you think. There's a whole generation of kids who grew up with lolita porn on websites like 4Chan, and anime that shows obviously underaged characters in compromising situations. That stuff has slowly been creeping into the mainstream for years now. That's got to have an effect on some people somehow. And its not uncommon to see people defending pedophilia or at least sex with teens on a number of youth-based social media platforms nowadays. I've mentioned previously that it's regularly done on places like Reddit. Heck, we had a few people on this very website who thought it would be a good idea to produce pedophile literature and films as a form of treatment for pedophilia under some bizarre notion that, rather than feeding off of those images, and increasing their desires, it would somehow satiate those desires instead.

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                    • Originally posted by Adrift View Post
                      That day may arrive sooner than you think. There's a whole generation of kids who grew up with lolita porn on websites like 4Chan, and anime that shows obviously underaged characters in compromising situations. That stuff has slowly been creeping into the mainstream for years now. That's got to have an effect on some people somehow. And its not uncommon to see people defending pedophilia or at least sex with teens on a number of youth-based social media platforms nowadays. I've mentioned previously that it's regularly done on places like Reddit. Heck, we had a few people on this very website who thought it would be a good idea to produce pedophile literature and films as a form of treatment for pedophilia under some bizarre notion that, rather than feeding off of those images, and increasing their desires, it would somehow satiate those desires instead.
                      And some of the same people (not necessarily those here) who I've seen who subscribe to this theory are the very same folks who want images of women being raped and assaulted banned because they think it'll incite such acts.

                      I'm always still in trouble again

                      "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                      "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                      "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

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                      • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                        I countered your idiot assertion. There is no question to beg.
                        You countered with a begged question. If we accept your claim that it is inherently immoral for a young women to consent to certain relationships with an older man, then you have to accept that God's Chosen People did what was inherently immoral for thousands of years when Jewish custom allowed for a woman as young as 13 to marry a man as old as 24, and God never said a word about it, and even Paul appears to have affirmed an "inherently immoral" tradition in one of his letters. How do you reconcile this?

                        And is it simply the age discrepancy that bothers you? Would you be fine with it if the two parties were closer in age?

                        And I should point out, again, that I'm not saying that young women necessarily should enter those sorts of relationships, nor am I saying that every female of a certain age is necessarily emotionally and mentally capable of consenting to such a relationship, nor am I saying that it would be proper for a female to be coerced into such a relationship. What I am saying is that such a relationship is not inherently immoral in and of itself, and declaring it so puts you at odds with scripture.

                        To put it another way, there are good arguments against a young woman entering into a relationship with an older man, but stamping your foot and yelling, "It's inherently immoral!" is not one of them. However, there are NO good arguments for a CHILD to enter into any kind of romantic relationship. In other words, what I've said here can in no way be used as a defense for pedophilia.
                        Last edited by Mountain Man; 11-18-2017, 10:09 AM.
                        Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                        But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                        Than a fool in the eyes of God


                        From "Fools Gold" by Petra

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                        • Originally posted by Adrift View Post
                          That day may arrive sooner than you think. There's a whole generation of kids who grew up with lolita porn on websites like 4Chan, and anime that shows obviously underaged characters in compromising situations. That stuff has slowly been creeping into the mainstream for years now. That's got to have an effect on some people somehow. And its not uncommon to see people defending pedophilia or at least sex with teens on a number of youth-based social media platforms nowadays. I've mentioned previously that it's regularly done on places like Reddit. Heck, we had a few people on this very website who thought it would be a good idea to produce pedophile literature and films as a form of treatment for pedophilia under some bizarre notion that, rather than feeding off of those images, and increasing their desires, it would somehow satiate those desires instead.
                          I may, but I would be dismayed if it did. You see, our western culture tends to "protect" children, and is structured in such a way as to consider a child "immature" until the end of high school (and now we hear about "no full brain development until 25"). Cultures with what we would consider "child marriages" tend to push children into maturity far sooner. For many, the biological moment of puberty is the shift to adulthood, and the culture is built around that. This open a window of cultural disconnect: they look at humans that are 12+ and 13+ as "adults" and wonder why we would treat them like children. We look at humans 18- (or 17- or 16-) as children and see these relationships as "abuse."

                          It is always dangerous to judge one culture from the perspectives of another. But within our culture, the cultural institution of defining "children" as anyone who's age starts with a number less than 2 is pretty widely based in the culture. That being said, we have seen other cultural changes, so that one may give way as well. If it does, it will be interesting to see how other developed countries respond. In general - the more developed the country, the more likely it is to define "childhood" as extending into older and older ages.
                          The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                          I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Jedidiah View Post
                            Baloney. Liberals today have no sense of basic morality at all.
                            Wow - that is an amazingly wide, sweeping statement. I do not consider myself "liberal" because I have positions that span the political spectrum, from far right to far left. On average, I'm definitely left of center, but not by a whole lot. I do know a lot of liberals, however, and most of the ones I know have some pretty amazing moral codes.

                            Perhaps you mean they do not have a moral code that aligns with yours? We do tend to see one another as "immoral" if our moral codes do not align.
                            The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                            I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                              I may, but I would be dismayed if it did. You see, our western culture tends to "protect" children, and is structured in such a way as to consider a child "immature" until the end of high school (and now we hear about "no full brain development until 25"). Cultures with what we would consider "child marriages" tend to push children into maturity far sooner. For many, the biological moment of puberty is the shift to adulthood, and the culture is built around that. This open a window of cultural disconnect: they look at humans that are 12+ and 13+ as "adults" and wonder why we would treat them like children. We look at humans 18- (or 17- or 16-) as children and see these relationships as "abuse."

                              It is always dangerous to judge one culture from the perspectives of another. But within our culture, the cultural institution of defining "children" as anyone who's age starts with a number less than 2 is pretty widely based in the culture. That being said, we have seen other cultural changes, so that one may give way as well. If it does, it will be interesting to see how other developed countries respond. In general - the more developed the country, the more likely it is to define "childhood" as extending into older and older ages.
                              Well, I hope you're right. Looking at popular moral philosophers like Peter Singer, and their wide spreading views on ethical utilitarianism regarding consent and pleasure, I'm not so sure that this isn't going to be one of the next slippery slopes relatively soon. Heck, Singer is already okay with sex with disabled individuals who can't offer consent, and doesn't even think that children are persons up to the age of three, and so can be post-birth aborted if they are unhealthy, or if the family is in financial dire straights. A non-person can't offer non-consent.

                              I think maybe what many of us are concerned about isn't so much that some third world notion of child brides will eventually become popular in the West (though that may be a legitimate concern if Islam continues it's growth in Western Europe), but that views on how we consider consent from a sort of secular utilitarian hedonism will one day supplant traditional Christian views on sexuality, consent, and chastity. Like I said, I hope you're right though.

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                              • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                                Wow - that is an amazingly wide, sweeping statement. I do not consider myself "liberal" because I have positions that span the political spectrum, from far right to far left. On average, I'm definitely left of center, but not by a whole lot. I do know a lot of liberals, however, and most of the ones I know have some pretty amazing moral codes.

                                Perhaps you mean they do not have a moral code that aligns with yours? We do tend to see one another as "immoral" if our moral codes do not align.
                                Easy there. It was an obvious over statement to counter the stupid remark it was in response to.
                                Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

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