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Pedophilia - The Next Taboo To Fall?

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  • Pedophilia - The Next Taboo To Fall?

    It would not surprise me, would it surprise you?


    Pedophilia and Adult–Child Sex
    A Philosophical Analysis

    This book provides a philosophical analysis of adult–child sex and pedophilia. This sex intuitively strikes many people as sick, disgusting, and wrong. The problem is that it is not clear whether these judgments are justified and whether they are aesthetic or moral. By analogy, many people find it disgusting to view images of obese people having sex, but it is hard to see what is morally undesirable about such sex: here the judgment is aesthetic. This book looks at the moral status of such adult-child sex. In particular, it explores whether those who engage in adult-child sex have a disease, act wrongly, or are vicious. In addition, it looks at how the law should respond to such sex given the above analyses.

    https://rowman.com/ISBN/978149850446...ical-Analysis#
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

  • #2
    The line right now is "two consenting adults." For pedophilia to be next would be to break two of those criteria at once when there are currently other movements to break only one of them.

    Objections to pedophilia from people who embrace the "two consenting adults" line involve the observation that children are not capable of fully understanding what sex is or entails, and therefore cannot properly consent. To rewrite our understanding of consent when it's so key to the SJW* rhetoric r.e. rape is to invite far too much internal conflict in their camp

    *I normally roll my eyes at complaints about SJWs, but making reference to them seemed like the easiest way to get the point across
    Don't call it a comeback. It's a riposte.

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    • #3
      I think the next line will be polygamy since it supposedly involves "consenting adults" and is acceptable to Muslims (the newest group everyone must bend over backwards for to avoid "offending") although studies into the cults that practice it in the U.S. draw into question just how consenting some of the girls who marry men twice their age are and what happens to a large percentage of the male children of such unions.

      I'm always still in trouble again

      "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
      "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
      "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

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      • #4
        Way back when this all began as a "movement", the obvious concern was that pedophilia would "be next". The GLBXKNMPAZ community realized early on that this would never allow their movement to grow, so they divorced the pedophilia segment. Hence, all the controversy over Harvey Milks, NAMBLA, etc.

        (as an aside, there have been accusations that Donald Trump gave financial support to NAMBLA, but Snopes clearly cites that as false)

        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

        Comment


        • #5
          The American Psychiatric Association fired the first shot across the bow several years ago when they classified sexual attraction to children as merely an "atypical sexual interest" rather than a disorder. According to the latest edition of DSM, it's only a disorder if the feelings are unwanted or cause distress in the individual, although the APA pays lip service to the fact that pedophilia is still illegal.

          So the camel already has his nose under the tent. I've said for a while that the next big social movement is going to revolve around pedophiles following the trail blazed by homosexuals, and that those who supported homosexuality are going to face a very uncomfortable dilemma when they see the exact same arguments used to defend homosexuality re-purposed to defend pedophilia: so do they hypocritically object to pedophilia, or do they swallow their disgust and support it?
          Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
          But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
          Than a fool in the eyes of God


          From "Fools Gold" by Petra

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          • #6
            I used to think that society's cocooning of children would be an insurmountable barrier to the acceptance of pedophilia. But now that 5-year olds are encouraged to express themselves as transgender, little more than statuatory rape laws are in the way.
            Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Spartacus View Post
              The line right now is "two consenting adults." For pedophilia to be next would be to break two of those criteria at once when there are currently other movements to break only one of them.

              Objections to pedophilia from people who embrace the "two consenting adults" line involve the observation that children are not capable of fully understanding what sex is or entails, and therefore cannot properly consent. To rewrite our understanding of consent when it's so key to the SJW* rhetoric r.e. rape is to invite far too much internal conflict in their camp

              *I normally roll my eyes at complaints about SJWs, but making reference to them seemed like the easiest way to get the point across
              Pretty much. I'd like to add in that the consent isn't just about knowing what sex is, either, and that its arguably more important that the power difference between children and adults is so massive which is the same problem that rogue mentioned about, well, weird sex cults and young women being forced to marry men twice their age.

              I don't see this happening for numerous reasons including the ones you mentioned, but of the ones you didn't the biggest for me is that there aren't very many pedophiles let alone those who can argue a case, any case, about why what they're doing is in any way positive and of those that do? Laughably bad. This just isn't a real fear, you know? and I wish that the people posting here would respond to you instead of fear mongering :-/

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Jaecp View Post
                Pretty much. I'd like to add in that the consent isn't just about knowing what sex is, either, and that its arguably more important that the power difference between children and adults is so massive which is the same problem that rogue mentioned about, well, weird sex cults and young women being forced to marry men twice their age.
                What do you feel about consensual incest among grown adults? Arguments are usually made that even there there can be power differences, but I remember Seasanctuary arguing that he was fine with incest because he didn't think the power dynamic was that big of a deal when you're an adult.

                I don't see this happening for numerous reasons including the ones you mentioned, but of the ones you didn't the biggest for me is that there aren't very many pedophiles let alone those who can argue a case, any case, about why what they're doing is in any way positive and of those that do? Laughably bad. This just isn't a real fear, you know? and I wish that the people posting here would respond to you instead of fear mongering :-/
                Not long after the Digg exodus to Reddit, I was surprised to find how many Redditors were either defending pedophila or even admitted to being pedophiles, and used a number of familiar arguments to defend the normality of their so-called "sexual orientation". Though I don't remember anyone actually defending the practice of preying on children physically, there were a number of incidences where they were defending pedophile literature and pornography as a perfectly reasonable outlet for their orientation. To my shock and dismay, these people were highly upvoted, and it became a bit of a meme for a while that Reddit was welcoming to pedophiles. In the last couple years, as the site has gotten more mainstream, and as a number of the more controversial subs have been split off, I'm seeing less of that sort of talk, but it still happens on occasion. So, it's not like this isn't a thing in the real world. It apparently is, and on a scale large enough to become meme-ic on some of the most popular social media forums. And if I had to venture a guess, unfortunately I think this mindset is growing, especially on youth-based forums like 4Chan where one of the gateways into this sort of perversion is loli porn and anime. I agree with rogue that the poly thing is more likely to be the next big taboo that falls before the pedo one, but it wouldn't surprise me if it's eventually downplayed in a larger scale than it currently is.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Adrift View Post
                  What do you feel about consensual incest among grown adults? Arguments are usually made that even there there can be power differences, but I remember Seasanctuary arguing that he was fine with incest because he didn't think the power dynamic was that big of a deal when you're an adult.
                  I don't really feel anything about it, this isn't something I really focus on, but as far as arguments go I'd say that a big difference between specifically adult incest and pedophilia is that while there can be a power imbalance in the former there will always be a power imbalance in the latter. The gap of the power difference matters, too, as its not like there is an even balance of power in mainstream hetero relationships so we'd need to see if the potential power imbalance between otherwise consenting incestuous adults is outside the average of non-controversial relationships and then look at that data.

                  Part of that isn't something I think we have the datasets for, but that would be my approach if I were really considering the problem.

                  Not long after the Digg exodus to Reddit, I was surprised to find how many Redditors were either defending pedophila or even admitted to being pedophiles, and used a number of familiar arguments to defend the normality of their so-called "sexual orientation". Though I don't remember anyone actually defending the practice of preying on children physically, there were a number of incidences where they were defending pedophile literature and pornography as a perfectly reasonable outlet for their orientation. To my shock and dismay, these people were highly upvoted, and it became a bit of a meme for a while that Reddit was welcoming to pedophiles. In the last couple years, as the site has gotten more mainstream, and as a number of the more controversial subs have been split off, I'm seeing less of that sort of talk, but it still happens on occasion. So, it's not like this isn't a thing in the real world. It apparently is, and on a scale large enough to become meme-ic on some of the most popular social media forums. And if I had to venture a guess, unfortunately I think this mindset is growing, especially on youth-based forums like 4Chan where one of the gateways into this sort of perversion is loli porn and anime. I agree with rogue that the poly thing is more likely to be the next big taboo that falls before the pedo one, but it wouldn't surprise me if it's eventually downplayed in a larger scale than it currently is.
                  That's a big debate among researchers and treatment specialists. Does porn sate or exacerbate a pedophiles desires towards children. We want to know for more reasons than just that, incidentally. If its the former then we should be giving pedophiles as much porn as they friggin want. If it exacerbates? The opposite, of course.

                  As a note, Reddit is a worldwide website, top 9 in the US top 26 in the world according to alexa, so it wouldn't take a large amount of people to be able to all upvote each other and wouldn't be indicative of much in the broader society.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Adrift View Post
                    What do you feel about consensual incest among grown adults? Arguments are usually made that even there there can be power differences, but I remember Seasanctuary arguing that he was fine with incest because he didn't think the power dynamic was that big of a deal when you're an adult.



                    Not long after the Digg exodus to Reddit, I was surprised to find how many Redditors were either defending pedophila or even admitted to being pedophiles, and used a number of familiar arguments to defend the normality of their so-called "sexual orientation". Though I don't remember anyone actually defending the practice of preying on children physically, there were a number of incidences where they were defending pedophile literature and pornography as a perfectly reasonable outlet for their orientation. To my shock and dismay, these people were highly upvoted, and it became a bit of a meme for a while that Reddit was welcoming to pedophiles. In the last couple years, as the site has gotten more mainstream, and as a number of the more controversial subs have been split off, I'm seeing less of that sort of talk, but it still happens on occasion. So, it's not like this isn't a thing in the real world. It apparently is, and on a scale large enough to become meme-ic on some of the most popular social media forums. And if I had to venture a guess, unfortunately I think this mindset is growing, especially on youth-based forums like 4Chan where one of the gateways into this sort of perversion is loli porn and anime.
                    I agree with rogue that the poly thing is more likely to be the next big taboo that falls before the pedo one, but it wouldn't surprise me if it's eventually downplayed in a larger scale than it currently is.
                    Somehow this was the only part of the post that I noticed.

                    I'm always still in trouble again

                    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                    "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by seer View Post
                      It would not surprise me, would it surprise you?
                      How could you be against pedophilia? You get your morality from Yahweh and Yahweh is totally cool with 50 year old men marrying 14,13,12,11,10, or 9 year old girls. So long as there is marriage involved, you cannot be against pedophilia.
                      Blog: Atheism and the City

                      If your whole worldview rests on a particular claim being true, you damn well better have evidence for it. You should have tons of evidence.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by The Thinker View Post
                        How could you be against pedophilia? You get your morality from Yahweh and Yahweh is totally cool with 50 year old men marrying 14,13,12,11,10, or 9 year old girls. So long as there is marriage involved, you cannot be against pedophilia.
                        Really? I'm not saying that you are wrong but can you show me that from Scripture?
                        Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by The Thinker View Post
                          How could you be against pedophilia? You get your morality from Yahweh and Yahweh is totally cool with 50 year old men marrying 14,13,12,11,10, or 9 year old girls. So long as there is marriage involved, you cannot be against pedophilia.
                          Originally posted by seer View Post
                          Really? I'm not saying that you are wrong but can you show me that from Scripture?
                          Please do provide the text. I'm really curious how you came to that conclusion.
                          Watch your links! http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/fa...corumetiquette

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Jaecp View Post
                            I don't really feel anything about it, this isn't something I really focus on, but as far as arguments go I'd say that a big difference between specifically adult incest and pedophilia is that while there can be a power imbalance in the former there will always be a power imbalance in the latter. The gap of the power difference matters, too, as its not like there is an even balance of power in mainstream hetero relationships so we'd need to see if the potential power imbalance between otherwise consenting incestuous adults is outside the average of non-controversial relationships and then look at that data.

                            Part of that isn't something I think we have the datasets for, but that would be my approach if I were really considering the problem.
                            So, like Seasanctuary, do you think that there might be good arguments to take adult incest off of the list of taboos?

                            That's a big debate among researchers and treatment specialists. Does porn sate or exacerbate a pedophiles desires towards children. We want to know for more reasons than just that, incidentally. If its the former then we should be giving pedophiles as much porn as they friggin want. If it exacerbates? The opposite, of course.
                            Even if it does satiate desire, I think there are good arguments against even considering a defence for providing porn nevermind pedo porn. But more to the point, what got me about the whole defence of pedophilia on these forums was their assertion that pedophilia ought to be normalized within broader society. That this is an unfortunate affliction that many suffer, and would not choose if they could choose otherwise (which is a familiar argument), and that their needs need to be taken into consideration. The argument sometimes goes further in asserting that, even accused pedophiles who've committed sex acts with children should not be punished or penalized for their behavior, but should be treated in ways that both recognize that they have a valid orientation, and offering them substitutes for their needs if need be. I think for most people, the big issue is that you can clinical-ize just about any and every offence so that no one is ever responsible for anything they think or do ever again. Stretched to its extreme, even the thief and the murder could not help but steal and kill. They are simply a product of genetics and environment.

                            A counterargument to this normalization of taboo sexual vices could be made that by keeping it taboo, and by heaping social shame on them, society helps prevent people from exploring these ideas, and getting caught up in whatever web of sexual behavior they end up in. Though I'm certain it's controversial, and plenty of people think they are just "born that way", I think an argument could be made that a lot of these "orientations" (especially those that seemed to have popped up recently like loli attraction, furries, real dolls, trans-whatever, etc.) are just people exposed to material while still young and impressionable. There's that comedic phrase "I hope this didn't wake something in me", but it's not really funny when you think that that actually may be the case for a lot of people.

                            As a note, Reddit is a worldwide website, top 9 in the US top 26 in the world according to alexa, so it wouldn't take a large amount of people to be able to all upvote each other and wouldn't be indicative of much in the broader society.
                            If it's one of the top websites in the US and in the world, it certainly seems to me that it at least offers a glimpse into issues in broader society.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by DesertBerean View Post
                              Please do provide the text. I'm really curious how you came to that conclusion.
                              Maybe he mixed up Christianity and Islam?
                              If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

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