Pedophilia - The Next Taboo To Fall?

[Jedidiah]

Really? I'm not saying that you are wrong but can you show me that from Scripture?

He can not. That was just his way of saying nya, nya, nya.

[Jedidiah]

Homosexuality forced it's way into legitimacy as many homosexuals entered the various psychology fields, and then crowds of homosexuals intimidated enough of the members of the APA into 'accepting' it.

All that was in the newspapers back in the early 70s, but not a hint remains anywhere, I have been able to find, on the internet.

[The Thinker]

Really? I'm not saying that you are wrong but can you show me that from Scripture?

There is no age of consent in the Bible and Yahweh never says you must be over X age before you can have sex or marry. And older men marrying girls as young as 9 occurred back then. So if you feel that pedophilia is morally wrong, on what basis is it wrong on your view?

[The Thinker]

Homosexuality forced it's way into legitimacy as many homosexuals entered the various psychology fields, and then crowds of homosexuals intimidated enough of the members of the APA into 'accepting' it.

All that was in the newspapers back in the early 70s, but not a hint remains anywhere, I have been able to find, on the internet.

That's the story many Christians and conservatives tell. Do explain what you mean by "legitimacy".

[rogue06]

There is no age of consent in the Bible and Yahweh never says you must be over X age before you can have sex or marry. And older men marrying girls as young as 9 occurred back then. So if you feel that pedophilia is morally wrong, on what basis is it wrong on your view?

There are a lot of things not specifically mentioned in the Bible because it was considered self-evident or common sense. So much for the claim that

How could you be against pedophilia? You get your morality from Yahweh and Yahweh is totally cool with 50 year old men marrying 14,13,12,11,10, or 9 year old girls.

Be careful there or you'll get bowled over by those goalposts you're moving.

[Starlight]

There is no age of consent in the Bible and Yahweh never says you must be over X age before you can have sex or marry. And older men marrying girls as young as 9 occurred back then.

From the Mishnah:

Mishnah 5.1:
A girl of the age of three years and one day may be betrothed by intercourse; If the yabam had intercourse with her, he acquires her thereby;

A very common theory among the early Christians about why Jesus's father is absent from most of the gospels (and why Mary was an ever-virgin) was that when Mary and Joseph got engaged, Mary was extremely young and Joseph extremely old, so he died of old age.

Anyone familiar with ancient Jewish culture knows that very young brides were a thing.

[Starlight]

That's a big debate among researchers and treatment specialists. Does porn sate or exacerbate a pedophiles desires towards children. We want to know for more reasons than just that, incidentally. If its the former then we should be giving pedophiles as much porn as they friggin want. If it exacerbates? The opposite, of course.

Yeah, I'm befuzzled by the war on child porn, given that I would have thought that letting these people look at porn gives them an alternative outlet for their desires, and making existing child porn freely available saturates the market and thus strongly disincentives the making of new child porn.

On the whole I find the SJW's approach to this entire topic a bit befuddling. Penalties for things like underage sex have been repeatedly raised through the roof, to the point where it gets completely silly like where if a boyfriend is one month older than his girlfriend and he's above the age of consent but she's still below it, then he gets hit with massive penalties and life-long sex-offender status etc if they have sex. It's ridiculous.

Seer's OP is essentially predicting that a swing from religiously-motivated to atheistic-morality (and the consequent effect on national laws) will loosen pedophilia laws, but we've seen the exact opposite happen. They've gotten much harsher. And IMO, I don't see a good reason for them getting so much harsher. For starters, harsher penalties are well-known to be almost completely ineffectual in terms of increasing the disincentives, so it seems pointless.

[rogue06]

Yeah, I'm befuzzled by the war on child porn, given that I would have thought that letting these people look at porn gives them an alternative outlet for their desires, and making existing child porn freely available saturates the market and thus strongly disincentives the making of new child porn.

Because the saturation of porn available virtually everywhere on the internet has bankrupted the porn industry with nothing new being made in the past decade or so

[seer]

From the Mishnah:

Mishnah 5.1:
A girl of the age of three years and one day may be betrothed by intercourse; If the yabam had intercourse with her, he acquires her thereby;

A very common theory among the early Christians about why Jesus's father is absent from most of the gospels (and why Mary was an ever-virgin) was that when Mary and Joseph got engaged, Mary was extremely young and Joseph extremely old, so he died of old age.

Anyone familiar with ancient Jewish culture knows that very young brides were a thing.

And seeing that you support the killing of children I'm sure you would have no problem with the raping of them either.

[Starlight]

Because the saturation of porn available virtually everywhere on the internet has bankrupted the porn industry with nothing new being made in the past decade or so

I am surprised it hasn't, and googling it to find out why gives various articles explaining that the porn industry has collapsed due to the free availability of porn online. Apparently numerous companies have gone out of business. Most of those that are left apparently try to cater to older age groups that aren't internet savvy.

[Adrift]

These are the exact same goofy arguments B&H got spanked on last year. You all drink from the same water cooler or something?

Here's how we dealt with them last time they came around,

In case anyone is interested in a scholarly resource on this subject:

Source: The Cambridge Dictionary of Judaism and Jewish Culture edited by Judith R. Baskin

The Hebrew Bible contains no hints about the average age of first marriage, but ethnographic data suggest an early age, corresponding to the onset of puberty. Pre-modern societies like ancient Israel had high infant mortality rates and short life-spans (an average of thirty to forty years), and a young marriage age was necessary to maintain if not increase the population. The need for the labor provided by offspring was of paramount importance, Israelite demographic concerns are expressed in biblical language mandating population growth (e.g. "Be fertile and increase" in Gen 1:28 and 9:1), which likely reflects early marriages. Even for elites, whose interests in arranging marriages lay in the preservation of family land holdings, early marriages would have been more effective in ensuring the production of heirs. Very little is known about the arrangements leading up to and culminating in the formation of a marital pair, with only a few biblical narratives providing clues. The so-called Courtship of Rebekah in Genesis 24 provides considerable information, but should be used cautiously, for Rebekah and her spouse-to-be Isaac are hardly ordinary folk. They are part of the exalted origins, according to the biblical construction, of the people of Israel, and their families control substantial resources. It is uncertain that the elaborate exchange of goods preceding their marriage would have taken place for individuals with fewer possessions. Nonetheless, as for the elite families whose marital arrangements appear in many ancient Near Eastern law codes, financial matters were integral to the formation of most marital liaisons, with premarital transactions serving a variety of economic, legal, and social functions.

© Copyright Original Source

As far as I can tell in my research, most marrying ages in the ancient world started pretty much no earlier than about 14 for women (I can't find any source for 12 year old getting married), with men usually averaging a bit older (a 10 year gap wasn't uncommon). We see this in Assyria, Babylon, Greece, and Rome (with Roman males actually being a bit older). Eerdman's commentary, and a few other commentaries I've read indicate that average ages in the Ancient Israel were approx. mid to late teens. By the NT period, average ages in Israel may have increased to the early 20s, but there isn't any direct evidence for this in the Bible. The average age of death for a woman in the ancient near east was approx. 36, and men approx. 45.

I haven't been involved in your other thread on this and haven't read it as it was quite long by the time I came along so perhaps I am missing something, however from what I can see these entries are just commentaries and a discussion about legalities of how to determine which girls could be considered to be eligible to eventually become brides. In particular it seems to me from reading here that they are discussing how one would go about establishing which gentile girls could be taken as never having had sexual relations with a man. In other words which girls were married and which not, for from what I read here it seems that if any girl had had sexual relations then she was considered married and not eligible, but that it was not a straightforward matter of just looking at peoples' ring-fingers. They are saying any gentile girl under three years and one day could be taken as not having had sexual relations but that after that age a girl's account was considered and an account of sexual relations would mean she was technically married and therefore not eligible. In other words this is giving us information about how the gentiles operated and how the Hebrews had to take that into consideration when interacting with them.

[Starlight]

And seeing that you support the killing of children I'm sure you would have no problem with the raping of them either.

That's way beyond the pale, and incredibly offensive. Apologize right now.

[rogue06]

These are the exact same goofy arguments B&H got spanked on last year. You all drink from the same water cooler or something?

Here's how we dealt with them last time they came around,

I would be quite surprised if many of the cases where the husband is older than his wife is the result of the man re-marrying after losing his first wife to child birth. In ancient times men actually had longer life spans due to the large number of women who died in child birth.

[Adrift]

I would be quite surprised if many of the cases where the husband is older than his wife is the result of the man re-marrying after losing his first wife to child birth. In ancient times men actually had longer life spans due to the large number of women who died in child birth.

Yeah, we cover a lot of that sort of ground in that old thread.

[One Bad Pig]

That's way beyond the pail, and incredibly offensive. Apologize right now.

Are infants less than three months old not children?