Augustine2004's opinions on Lew Rockwell, Plato, and assorted other subjects

[lilpixieofterror]

Two possibilities here:

1. The government works for the ruling class. You and I are essentially slaves. In that case, Lew Rockwell is really a hero. Not a terrorist.

2. The government works for the good of all. Perhaps not always, but usually anyway. There is no ruling class. In that case, Lew Rockwell is a villain. Perhaps not really a terrorist, but still a villain.

I'd say number two.

How to decide? I sure wonder what you think of the bailout. Could you be that credulous?

Depends on the way you look at it or how it works out.

Well, Miss Skeptic, take a look at this:
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/glance/rape.htm
Hmmmm. . . . No explanation for why there are so many rapes and so many attempts in the military. Why do women have to carry knives to the latrine?

Per population dear, the military is a bit higher, but again.... that doesn't mean the military must be evil because after all; in 1993 it was about 3 to 4 times higher in the civilian world. Second, I've been to the middle east... and guess what? I was never worried about being raped nor did I know any other women who were. Got another argument or is a mis-report in figures all you can produce?

Why have government when it does more bad than good?

Can you change this question so it makes sense?

Can you establish that against the government statistics shown above?

Are you a member of the armed forces? Nope. I am though and guess what... they have reports that can be field from anybody who is a victim of rape and they do prosecute if you so desire. Yet again... it seems Lew Rockwell ignores these facts to make his case seem more valid than it really is.

How do you know it's not deliberate strategy? Osama bin Laden said his objective was to wear down the American empire, and from what I've read he's succeeding. That's what we said about Vietnam. Never lost a battle blah blah blah.

No it's not succeeding at all. The crash of the housing market has nothing to do with the war in Iraq. Same thing going on with the banks and insurance companies... it isn't the fact the war is going on. It is the fact of bad loans combined with a fall out of the housing market. So nope... it's not succeeding at all, just more people warping the facts to fit into their views.

Well, yeah, but I take the view that if we're not winning, we're losing and if we can't win we must withdraw.Actually, for the most part the MSM is pro-statist and pro-war.

Too bad we are, but people are stupid and seem to want instant results. It's not going to be instant and the people are too dumb to understand that.

[Augustine2004]

OK, so you believe that the US Federal Government is doing more good than bad. Why?

Now, I don't know you well enough to know that your 'feelings' ('gut' judgements about situations when information is lacking - as it usually is - for well-established judgements) are usually correct. So you need to show how you know that. If you base your argument on your feelings, that's NOT acceptable.

[lilpixieofterror]

OK, so you believe that the US Federal Government is doing more good than bad. Why?

Are you speaking German today? Are you prison today because you spoke bad about the government? If not... why? The USSR and Nazi Germany would of locked you away long ago, so just remember that.

Now, I don't know you well enough to know that your 'feelings' ('gut' judgements about situations when information is lacking - as it usually is - for well-established judgements) are usually correct. So you need to show how you know that. If you base your argument on your feelings, that's NOT acceptable.

Feelings are illogical and get you into trouble; I go off my head. Guess what dear... never heard of any women in the military having to take a knife to the bathroom because they were afraid of being rapped. Have you been in the military for years and years? I have and I think I would of heard about it by now. My chances of being rapped in the civilian world is just as good as on a military base. Did Lew Rockwell tell you that? If he did, that means he's pretty dishonest or just found a few women who felt that way and decided to play sensationalism and try to pretend that all or even the majority are doing that.

[Augustine2004]

Are you speaking German today? Are you prison today because you spoke bad about the government? If not... why? The USSR and Nazi Germany would of locked you away long ago, so just remember that.

Seems to me like you are already conceding that the Nazi government did more bad than good. The Soviet Union did more bad than good. WHY, though?

Contrary to your assumptions, a society with a minimalist government can defend itself, with the free market providing security services. If you disagree, please explain. I’ve already made arguments in the public goods thread and the small government thread.

Feelings are illogical and get you into trouble; I go off my head. Guess what dear... never heard of any women in the military having to take a knife to the bathroom because they were afraid of being rapped. Have you been in the military for years and years? I have and I think I would of heard about it by now. My chances of being rapped in the civilian world is just as good as on a military base. Did Lew Rockwell tell you that? If he did, that means he's pretty dishonest or just found a few women who felt that way and decided to play sensationalism and try to pretend that all or even the majority are doing that.

Sigh, it wasn't Lew Rockwell who wrote that rape article. lewrockwell.com sometimes runs articles that Lew doesn't totally agree with. Perhaps you're right to question the article. Let's drop it, OK?

[lilpixieofterror]

Seems to me like you are already conceding that the Nazi government did more bad than good. The Soviet Union did more bad than good. WHY, though?

Are you sitting in prision right now?

Contrary to your assumptions, a society with a minimalist government can defend itself, with the free market providing security services. If you disagree, please explain. I’ve already made arguments in the public goods thread and the small government thread.

I don't recall saying that big government was good or bad.

Sigh, it wasn't Lew Rockwell who wrote that rape article. lewrockwell.com sometimes runs articles that Lew doesn't totally agree with. Perhaps you're right to question the article. Let's drop it, OK?

But he still let it on despite the fact that it wasn't the facts or just downright misrepresetation.

[Augustine2004]

Are you sitting in prision right now?

The President now has the 'legal' authorization to have me declared a terrorist through the Military Commissions Act and have me locked away for good, without a trial. One thing that keeps me safe - so far - is that the government fears public indigation and rebellion. Another thing is that the public still has some regard for freedom of speech. Now, will you please answer my question and stop dodging?

I[ don't recall saying that big government was good or bad.

You're either dodging or are a poor reader.

But he still let it on despite the fact that it wasn't the facts or just downright misrepresetation.

Good point. He should have checked if he didn't. If he did, YOU misrepresented the facts.

[lilpixieofterror]

The President now has the 'legal' authorization to have me declared a terrorist through the Military Commissions Act and have me locked away for good, without a trial. One thing that keeps me safe - so far - is that the government fears public indigation and rebellion. Another thing is that the public still has some regard for freedom of speech. Now, will you please answer my question and stop dodging?

BUSH IS AN IDIOT!!!!

So when shall I be declared a terrorist and thrown into prison?

You're either dodging or are a poor reader.

I'm not here to debate you on the merits of small government. Go do that in another thread. I am here to debate you about the military being evil.

Good point. He should have checked if he didn't. If he did, YOU misrepresented the facts.

I am in the military, you are not. So why would I misrepresent something when I'm there observing it for myself? I carry a knife on me and not because I'm afraid of rape, but because a pocket knife is really useful in many situations and I have used it for several things. I really do doubt his story is true or an accurate representation of the entire military since I haven't heard about it till now.

[Augustine2004]

So when shall I be declared a terrorist and thrown into prison?

your lack of concern over the MCA puzzles me. Cheney and Bush' grab for power does not concern you at all? Even if they are good fellas, a Hitler might come along later . . . Even if you are going to be safe, aren't you concerned for others at all?

I'm not here to debate you on the merits of small government. Go do that in another thread. I am here to debate you about the military being evil.

The military is either in control of the government or under the control of the government. Either way, we need to determine whether the government is doing more good than bad. It doesn't matter what 'size' it is.

I am in the military, you are not.

Why the hell should it matter? The police is becoming integrated into the military, so I have to fear interacting with the police.

So why would I misrepresent something when I'm there observing it for myself? I carry a knife on me and not because I'm afraid of rape, but because a pocket knife is really useful in many situations and I have used it for several things. I really do doubt his story is true or an accurate representation of the entire military since I haven't heard about it till now.

I did some googling and found this:

a study of risk factors for rape in the military that included a national sample of 558 women veterans from all branches of the U.S. armed forces who were identified from the Department of Veterans Affairs women’s health care registries and who served in Vietnam and the Persian Gulf (Sadler et al., 2003). Of these women approximately one third (30%, n = 151) had experienced an attempted or completed rape during military service.

http://www.internationalmta.org/Docu...5/2005107P.pdf I don’t suppose this will convince you, but I don’t care to do any more research.

[lilpixieofterror]

your lack of concern over the MCA puzzles me. Cheney and Bush' grab for power does not concern you at all? Even if they are good fellas, a Hitler might come along later . . .

Oh please. Stop with the fear mongering. Both Bush and Cheney have are out of office in a few months and haven't made any grabs to stay in office longer than that. Hitler did along with Stalin and Saddam. When you are forced to vote for Bush or die, you have a right to complain, but until that day comes... you are just fear mongering.

Even if you are going to be safe, aren't you concerned for others at all?

Do you have any proof that people are being beaten, tortured, and kill for disagreeing with Bush? If not... why should I believe you?

The military is either in control of the government or under the control of the government. Either way, we need to determine whether the government is doing more good than bad. It doesn't matter what 'size' it is.

Last I checked, the department of defense was ran by a civilian and the commander in chief of the US armed forces was the president (also a civilian). So it looks like to me the government is in control, unless you have proof it's not. Do you?

Why the hell should it matter? The police is becoming integrated into the military, so I have to fear interacting with the police.

I'd really love to see where you get this nonsense from. Do you have any evidence the police are integrated into the military or is this just more fear mongering and more of your nonsense that the military = pure evil?

I did some googling and found this:

a study of risk factors for rape in the military that included a national sample of 558 women veterans from all branches of the U.S. armed forces who were identified from the Department of Veterans Affairs women’s health care registries and who served in Vietnam and the Persian Gulf (Sadler et al., 2003). Of these women approximately one third (30%, n = 151) had experienced an attempted or completed rape during military service.

http://www.internationalmta.org/Docu...5/2005107P.pdf I don’t suppose this will convince you, but I don’t care to do any more research.

I guess you missed the part of the paper where it specifically says the DoD is doing things to address the problem and where the UCMJ says it's illegal and if you do it, you are going to jail. Did you skip those parts because you were looking for a soundbite? I got news for you, I have never been sexually assaulted in my nearly 5 years of military service. In fact... I've had military men stand up for me when some civilian guy wants to give me a problem. Go ahead, keep reading soundbites and finding things you like that agrees with you. Fact is, I am just as likely to be a victim of sexual assault in my own home or in the walk to or from my car as I am on a military base.

[Augustine2004]

Oh please. Stop with the fear mongering. Both Bush and Cheney have are out of office in a few months and haven't made any grabs to stay in office longer than that. Hitler did along with Stalin and Saddam. When you are forced to vote for Bush or die, you have a right to complain, but until that day comes... you are just fear mongering.

No I won't stop the 'fear mongering.' Aren't you impressed at all by the size of the stock market crashes? The financial markets? The bank bankruptcies?

Do you have any proof that people are being beaten, tortured, and kill for disagreeing with Bush? If not... why should I believe you?

Well, there are the 'free speech zones' now. I was talking about the future. Why have MCA at all if the government is not going to use it?

Last I checked, the department of defense was ran by a civilian and the commander in chief of the US armed forces was the president (also a civilian). So it looks like to me the government is in control, unless you have proof it's not. Do you?

Dodger or poor reader.

I'd really love to see where you get this nonsense from. Do you have any evidence the police are integrated into the military or is this just more fear mongering and more of your nonsense that the military = pure evil?

Later.

I guess you missed the part of the paper where it specifically says the DoD is doing things to address the problem and where the UCMJ says it's illegal and if you do it, you are going to jail.

Hardly new. Eisenhower said, hey stop raping the French women. World War II.[/QUOTE]


Wired on the fusion of police and military http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/200...out-new-d.html (Guaranteed 100% lewrockwell.com free).

Suppose your superior orders you to come with weapons to arrest me and put me in prison for writing stuff like this. What would you do?

You may wonder what this reply have to do with your thrice-repeated “Bush is an idiot” rejoinder. Well, don’t worry too much about whatever relevancy it may have.

Something in the newspaper upset me. I feel disgusted. This is about Pakistan ousting Afghani refugees from a tribal region. http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/W...ow/3567416.cms (guaranteed 100% lewrockwell.com free)

Let me add another phrase from another report (Associated Press, guaranteed 100% lewrockwell.com free): “ . . . that their homes would be bulldozed to keep them from returning.”

I know you’re an AF mechanic, but what would you do if you were one of those bulldozer operators?


According to this video, Bush threatened martial law if Congress didn’t pass the bail-out bill. http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewr...es/023374.html (Video guaranteed 100% lewrockwell.com free) If you were one of the persons ordered to enforce the martial law order, what would you do? What would you do if you were ordered to arrest that Congressman for making such an accusation?

[lilpixieofterror]

No I won't stop the 'fear mongering.' Aren't you impressed at all by the size of the stock market crashes? The financial markets? The bank bankruptcies?Well, there are the 'free speech zones' now. I was talking about the future. Why have MCA at all if the government is not going to use it?Dodger or poor reader.

What does the finacional institutions have to do with anything Bush did or are you going to blame Bush too on the fact banks made bad loans? Maybe if you actually made an argument instead of blaming Bush on everything (even though Bush does not make the laws, the liberal congress does), I might listen to you. Until than, doesn't expect me to take your serious.

Later.
Hardly new. Eisenhower said, hey stop raping the French women. World War II.

And as I recall, it was a crime in Eisenhower's day as well as today. Unless you want to

Wired on the fusion of police and military http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/200...out-new-d.html (Guaranteed 100% lewrockwell.com free).

Awww, more blog materal with fear mongoring added in. Got a news source like ABC News?

Suppose your superior orders you to come with weapons to arrest me and put me in prison for writing stuff like this. What would you do?

I am an AGE tech, not a cop so even if that happened; they wouldn't tell me to do it. Second, do you have any proof this has happened at all? Lew Rockwell continues to write bile about the military, yet... is he in jail?

You may wonder what this reply have to do with your thrice-repeated “Bush is an idiot” rejoinder. Well, don’t worry too much about whatever relevancy it may have.

Have I been sent away to be 're-educated' for calling Bush an idiot? Maybe if I called him some other bad names I'll be sent away? My point is... I can call Bush pretty much anything I want and yet... I havent' been sent to jail yet.

Something in the newspaper upset me. I feel disgusted. This is about Pakistan ousting Afghani refugees from a tribal region. http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/W...ow/3567416.cms (guaranteed 100% lewrockwell.com free)

Welcome to war, people become refugees all the time. Now do you have a real argument or perhaps you haven't noticed it isn't the US terrorizing people, it's the Talban. Humm... did you stop to think that if they actually cared about their country and not power, things would be doing great right now?

Let me add another phrase from another report (Associated Press, guaranteed 100% lewrockwell.com free): “ . . . that their homes would be bulldozed to keep them from returning.”

I know you’re an AF mechanic, but what would you do if you were one of those bulldozer operators?

Believe it or not.... bulldozer operators don't dig mass graves to burry people in. What do you think we do around here? Line up people who said bad things against Bush

According to this video, Bush threatened martial law if Congress didn’t pass the bail-out bill. http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewr...es/023374.html (Video guaranteed 100% lewrockwell.com free) If you were one of the persons ordered to enforce the martial law order, what would you do? What would you do if you were ordered to arrest that Congressman for making such an accusation?

Martial law. HAHAHAHAHA! Can I see a real news source on this or did Lew Rockwell just make that up on the spot? Sorry, but never in US history has a Congressman been arrested by a president. Do you just believe whatever you are told without question as long as it's anti government? Give some real sources and not sources that are fear mongering. And just so you know, are you having a hard time understanding that even if the Military is ordered to enforce martial law and arrest congressmen, I wouldn't have anything to do with it because I'm not a cop?

[Augustine2004]

Martial law. HAHAHAHAHA! Can I see a real news source on this or did Lew Rockwell just make that up on the spot? Sorry, but never in US history has a Congressman been arrested by a president. Do you just believe whatever you are told without question as long as it's anti government? Give some real sources and not sources that are fear mongering. And just so you know, are you having a hard time understanding that even if the Military is ordered to enforce martial law and arrest congressmen, I wouldn't have anything to do with it because I'm not a cop?

You're either a dodger or a poor reader.

Why don't you study a bit of history? This is Wikipedia. Do you really believe Lew Rockwell would make something like that up and get away with it?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vallandigham

[Augustine2004]

What does the finacional institutions have to do with anything Bush did or are you going to blame Bush too on the fact banks made bad loans? Maybe if you actually made an argument instead of blaming Bush on everything (even though Bush does not make the laws, the liberal congress does), I might listen to you. Until than, doesn't expect me to take your serious.

How can I possibly make a case that you’ll look at if you refuse to start with the basics? Oh, well, once again, do you agree with these precepts:

Do all you agree to do.

Do not encroach on anyone or his/her property (including his/her body). [Richard Maybury]

[lilpixieofterror]

You're either a dodger or a poor reader.

Why don't you study a bit of history? This is Wikipedia. Do you really believe Lew Rockwell would make something like that up and get away with it?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vallandigham

You did hear about this thing known as the civil war where these congressmen men were they enemy, right? You are also aware that after the civil war, these former rebel congressmen found their way right back to Washington DC, right? Nobody takes Lew Rockwell seriously, I'm still waiting for a news source that actually is credibile that says this. Got one?

How can I possibly make a case that you’ll look at if you refuse to start with the basics? Oh, well, once again, do you agree with these precepts:

Do all you agree to do.

Do not encroach on anyone or his/her property (including his/her body). [Richard Maybury]

Bush has nothing to do with how the bank runs it's company. Might want to go back and look over what the presidents job is. His job is to enforce laws made by congress, he can't make them pass a law that they don't want to. Again, I'd like to see you bring a repubable news source for your assertions. Got one?

[Augustine2004]

This article first appeared in 1998 - ten years ago! - but it still offers insight into what may happen when the current bailout bites us. http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig9/herbener1.html


LPO Terror seems to be such a poor reader that I’m not sure I can make any headway with her, but I will nevertheless make one more, possibly foolish, attempt. Suppose everyone follows the Maybury precepts. Would the world then need any sort of government at all?


Thomas J. DiLorezno points out that were the South to secede peacefully in 1861-1865, democracy would still have existed. Hence, he said, “government of the people, by the people, for the people” was ‘pure B.S.’ I hadn’t thought of that way before, but I agree. Government as practiced just about everywhere is a confidence game. That includes ‘democratic’ government.

Until the ‘Civil War Amendments’ were added to the Constitution, the Federal Government was supposed to be a constitutional republic government - not a ‘democratic’ one. Today, of course, there are no longer any constitutional limits on our government.