Islam should face same public analysis as Christianity

[technomage]

Well I guess the media is right since it means both things.

Actually a more precise translation would be "The state of having entered into peace", or "Blamelessness" or "Security".

Excuse me, my friend, but that is an utterly incorrect translation. Al'Islam means "submission"--this is a strict denotative translation. Your emotional associations may induce a certain reaction for you, and that reaction may be indicated by the words you used above, but that is connotation: connotative meanings of a word are far too subjective to use to translate a concept.

[technomage]

Sorry techno, I gotta agree with Mac on this. The media continues to claim that Islam means "peace" when in fact it means "submission."

I have never--ever--seen such a translation, and would be fascinated with a reference if you have one available. (If you don't, I understand--on those rare occasions when I watch TV, I don't tend to have my notebook handy.)

PBS spikes a program that takes a critical look at Islam ("Islam vs. Islamists: Voices From the Muslim Center") while putting on adoring puff pieces like “Muhammad: Legacy of a Prophet” and to a lesser extent "Empire of Faith."

That was sheer cowardice on the parts of the PBS, I'll agree. Fortunately, Fox picked up Islam vs. Islamists.

As for Christianity (for comparison), chances are it'll be a documentary like "Secret Files of the Inquisition." There are lots of instances like this.

On the other hand you have the likes of the UK's Channel 4 "The Real Da Vinci Code," which was picked up over here on History International (he's also the presenter for Time Team, an absolutely smashing show that presents real history).

[rogue06]

I have never--ever--seen such a translation, and would be fascinated with a reference if you have one available. (If you don't, I understand--on those rare occasions when I watch TV, I don't tend to have my notebook handy.)

Before 9/11 I never heard anyone define Islam as meaning “peace.” In fact, I thought “salaam” means peace, but I don’t claim to be a linguist. But in any case...

How to become a Muslim (Submitter)?: “Islam is an Arabic word and means "Submission", surrender and obedience. As a Religion Islam means submission and surrender to God alone.”

5 pillars of Islam: “At first you should know that Islam means submission to God.”

qadiri rifai sufi order: glossary: “Islam: submission”

The Muslim Student Association @ UConn: The meaning of "Islam": “Why should there be a debate about the meaning of Islam?!!!

According to Prof. Jane Smith, the word ‘Islam’ in Arabic had a meaning before the coming of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him). The meaning of the noun ‘islam’ means submission, and the essence of all God's religions is to submit to Him.”

Glossary: “Islam: Arabic word meaning submission (to God) and the name for the religion founded under the leadership of the prophet Muhammad; it also denotes the Muslim community.”

Islam: “The word Islam means ‘submission’, or the total surrender of oneself to the islamic conception of God (Arabic: الله‎, Allāh).”

Santa Clara University Religious Studies Department Glossary: “Islam: Arabic for "submission," the act of faith and surrender which defines the praxis of Muslims.”

Islam: “The word Islam means “submission”to the will of Allah.”

: What is Islam? In Islam, Peace is Based on Submission & Surrender to God: The Arabic term 'islam means "submission" and itself comes from the term 'aslama, which means "to surrender, resign oneself." In Islam, the fundamental duty of each Muslim is to submit to Allah (Arabic for "the God") and whatever Allah wants of them. A person who follows Islam is called a Muslim, and this means "one who surrenders to God."

[technomage]

Before 9/11 I never heard anyone define Islam as meaning “peace.” In fact, I thought “salaam” means peace, but I don’t claim to be a linguist. But in any case...

I m profoundly sorry for the confusion, but I meant a reference to "Islam = peace." I quite agree with the "Islam = submission" translation, and (as you can see from my response to Barnasha) am quite opposed to muddying the waters of communication with bad translations.

[Narnian]

Well I guess the media is right since it means both things.
Actually a more precise translation would be "The state of having entered into peace", or "Blamelessness" or "Security". ..... bla bla bla .....

Barnasha, what about my question that no muslim has dared to answer here yet? Should Islam face the same public scrutiny as Christianity? Yes or No?

I would like to hear from muslims.

[smaneck]

The media continues to claim that Islam means "peace" when in fact it means "submission." .

It means both things. Islam is derived from the same semitic roots as shalom in Hebrew. But it is the kind of peace that comes after a long battle which you lose, as tends to happen when you struggle with God.

[smaneck]

Before 9/11 I never heard anyone define Islam as meaning “peace.” In fact, I thought “salaam” means peace, but I don’t claim to be a linguist. But in any case...

Salaam and Islam are derived from the same trilateral root, sin lam, mim or SLM.

[barnasha]

Barnasha, what about my question that no muslim has dared to answer here yet? Should Islam face the same public scrutiny as Christianity? Yes or No?

I would like to hear from muslims.

Narnian,

in the sense that Christianity or Islam are organized religions within society, they not only "should face", they require and should demand public scrutiny.

in the sense that Christianity or Islam are the faiths which are in one's heart, they should also receive a lifetime of intense private scrutiny.

Islam is a special case, I feel it requires a lot more scrutiny in the ways it is applied socially, especially in places like Saudi Arabia. Christianity does not have as much of a direct effect on the politics of any modern countries to the extent that Islam does.

Unfortunately, what is applied is Islam through the lens of those in power in those country, and they (those leaders, those people) are the ones who require the most scrutiny - not Islam, but their interpretations using Islam as a framework.

Islam is a divine framework. One may judge wrongly using it or behave badly using it. But God is constant and cannot be changed nor redefined by anyone's interpretations.

Just like you cannot imagine yourself to be someone you are not , the truth is always the truth.

[Narnian]

Barnasha, thank you: that was one of the straightest, most honest replies I have ever received from you I almost amenned you, but I disagree with one small part:

leaders, those people) are the ones who require the most scrutiny - not Islam

All leaders etc are acting on an ideology and their childhood upbringing of their culture-religion. If you get rid of one leader, without looking at the root causes of his or her despotism, then you will simply make way for a new one just like the old. Until the destructive collective unconscious of a culture is fully and openly scrutinised, it will remain like a hidden curse, causing misery and violence. It is not by chance that Islamic countries tend to have cruel dictatorships and severe punishments. They are acting on the collective unconscious role model of Muhammad.

[Narnian]

It means both things

Well meaning westerners are often fooled by the Islam=peace rhetoric. "Peace" in islam does not have the same meaning as "peace" does in the western Christian world. When you say: 'peace" to a muslim, it doesn't mean a beautiful sunset, or a dove, or a lack of violence. Peace to a muslim is completely different. The 9/11 hijackers were completely at peace when they rammed the planes into the buildings. Peace to muslism means a state of mind whereby he or she does not think anymore as an individual, but only relies on instructions read from the Quran, without asking any questions. What's wrong with that? Because once you don't trust your own rational thought, it dies ....... and rational thought it tied up with ethics, empathy and compassion.

[barnasha]

Well meaning westerners are often fooled by the Islam=peace rhetoric. "Peace" in islam does not have the same meaning as "peace" does in the western Christian world. When you say: 'peace" to a muslim, it doesn't mean a beautiful sunset, or a dove, or a lack of violence. Peace to a muslim is completely different. The 9/11 hijackers were completely at peace

what a terrible cheap shot, you should be ashamed of yourself.

I'm sure the crusaders were at peace when slaughtering muslim babies too

[smaneck]

Well meaning westerners are often fooled by the Islam=peace rhetoric. "Peace" in islam does not have the same meaning as "peace" does in the western Christian world. When you say: 'peace" to a muslim, it doesn't mean a beautiful sunset, or a dove, or a lack of violence. Peace to a muslim is completely different.

This is sheer bigoted nonsense.

.

Peace to muslism means a state of mind whereby he or she does not think anymore as an individual, but only relies on instructions read from the Quran, without asking any questions.

The word for that is taqlid, not islam.

[barnasha]

This is sheer bigoted nonsense.

.

The word for that is taqlid, not islam.

And eeman (a personal faith) is a requirement, noone can believe in something for you.

[Narnian]

This is sheer bigoted nonsense.

If you choose to remain with western blinkers on and a sanitised version of islam, then that is up to you. I maintain that peace does not mean the same thing to a muslim as it does to a westerner.

[smaneck]

I maintain that peace does not mean the same thing to a muslim as it does to a westerner.

If the kind of hatred and bigotry you spread around is the western idea of peace, i would agree.