salvation for all

[cmos]

This topic of salvation of all has puzzled me for years can somebody enlighten me with it.Will everyone be saved?

[ApologiaPhoenix]

This topic of salvation of all has puzzled me for years can somebody enlighten me with it.Will everyone be saved?

No. Hell is presented as a reality in Scripture and there are passages such as 2 Peter 3:9 that indicate that not all will be saved.

If there is a verse for universalism, bring it forward and it will be examined.

[Sozo2]

There are hundreds of verses that teach salvation of all. But let's start with the most obvious one.

For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 1 Cor 15:22

[cmos]

And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing: and I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall ALL FAMILIES of the earth be blessed" (Genesis 12:2, 3).

The above scriptures says ALL FAMILIES WILL BE BLESSED, that was a promise that God made to Abraham.Do we think that God will not fulfill this promise by not blessing all the families of the earth?Does God lie?If He doesn't lie then he will fulfill this promise and every single family that ever lived in the face of the world will blessed of God.

"ALL the ends of the world shall remember and turn unto the LORD: and ALL the kindreds of the nations shall worship before thee" (Psalm 22:27).

"And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD'S house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and ALL nations shall flow unto it" (Isaiah 2:2).

"Every valley shall be filled, and every mountain and hill shall be brought low; and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough ways shall be made smooth; And ALL FLESH shall see the salvation of God" (Luke 3:5,6).

"The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto Him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which TAKETH away the sin of the world" (John 1:29).

Jesus Christ WILL take away the sins of the world,He won't try to but He will do it because he is capable of that.He came to do that,do we think He will fail to take away the sins of the world?

"...This is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world" (John 4:42).

This scriptures says that Christ IS the Saviour of the world.Please note that it does not say He is the POTENTIAL SAVIOUR,NO,it says HE IS.If He does not save the world then He does not deserve the title of being called THE SAVIOUR OF THE WORLD.If He is the Saviour of the world then He must save the world to live up to that title.Think about this,if i say James IS the Managing Director then he must carry out duties that correspond with the title,if he cannot then he does not deserve to be the MD.If Jesus does not save the world then He does not deserve to be called the saviour of the world since He is failing to carry out the duties that goes with being the saviour of the world.

"For if by one man’s offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by One, Jesus Christ. Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon ALL MEN to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of One the free gift came upon ALL MEN UNTO JUSTIFICATION OF LIFE. For as by one man’s disobedience MANY(ALL)were made sinners, so by the obedience of One shall MANY(ALL)be made righteous" (Romans 5:17-19).

Again the scripture says ONE MAN'S OFFECNCE BROUGHT CONDEMNATION TO ALL BUT,BUT,THE THROUGH THE RIOUGHTESOUNESS OF ONE MAN JUSTIFICATION WILL COME TO ALL MAN.The same ALL that was condemned is the VERY same ALL that will be justifies.This is not rocket science is it?Simple stuff!!

"For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam ALL DIE, even so in Christ SHALL ALL BE MADE ALIVE. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at His coming. Then cometh the end, when He shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when He shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. For He must reign, till He hath put all enemies under His feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. For He hath put all things under His feet. But when He saith all things are put under Him, it is manifest that He is excepted, which did put all things under Him. And when all things shall be subdued unto Him, then shall the Son also Himself be subject unto Him that put all things under Him, that God may be ALL IN ALL." (I Corinthians 15:21-28).

Again it says we "ALL DIED in Adam" the VERY same ALL will be made ALIVE in Christ.Read your Bible it's all there.

"That in the dispensation of the fulness of times He might gather together in one ALL THINGS in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on EARTH; even in Him" (Ephesians 1:10).

"For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, Who is the Saviour of ALL men, specially of those that believe" (I Timothy 4:10).

God IS the Saviour of ALL men,especially of those that believe.It is also important to note that it says "ESPECIALLY of those that believe" not EXCLUSIVELY,meaning that those who believe will be saved in a special nevertheless everyone will be saved because God is the Saviour of ALL men.

"Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, MY COUNSEL SHALL STAND, and I WILL DO ALL MY PLEASURE" (Isaiah 46:10).

There are a whole lot of Scriptures which explain in full detail that God will save everyone,He wants to and He desires to.The above Scriptures says "MY COUNSEL SHALL STAND and I WILL DO ALL MY PLEASURE.God will do ALL His pleasure nothing will stop Him.If He cant do ALL His pleasure it means He is a liar.Simple is that

Please read this and tell what you think,i will be glad to bring you more Scriptural proof!!!!

[ApologiaPhoenix]

There are hundreds of verses that teach salvation of all. But let's start with the most obvious one.

For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 1 Cor 15:22

A.T. Robertson has addressed this in the Word Pictures of the NT:
Shall be made alive (zwopoihqhsontai). First future passive indicative of zwopoiew, late verb (Aristotle) to give life, to restore to life as here. In verse Romans 36 zwopoieitai is used in the sense of natural life as in John 5:21 ; John 6:63 of spiritual life. It is not easy to catch Paul's thought here. He means resurrection (restoration) by the verb here, but not necessarily eternal life or salvation. So also pante may not coincide in both clauses. All who die die in Adam, all who will be made alive will be made alive (restored to life) in Christ. The same problem occurs in Romans 5:18 about "all," and in verse Romans 15:19 about "the many."

[ApologiaPhoenix]

And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing: and I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall ALL FAMILIES of the earth be blessed" (Genesis 12:2, 3).

And they were. The world has been blessed through the work of Christ.

The above scriptures says ALL FAMILIES WILL BE BLESSED, that was a promise that God made to Abraham.Do we think that God will not fulfill this promise by not blessing all the families of the earth?Does God lie?If He doesn't lie then he will fulfill this promise and every single family that ever lived in the face of the world will blessed of God.

Yep, and this does not prove universalism at all.

"ALL the ends of the world shall remember and turn unto the LORD: and ALL the kindreds of the nations shall worship before thee" (Psalm 22:27).

Yes. In a collectivist society, this makes sense. Again, this shows universalism how?

"And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD'S house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and ALL nations shall flow unto it" (Isaiah 2:2).

Still waiting for the proof....

"Every valley shall be filled, and every mountain and hill shall be brought low; and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough ways shall be made smooth; And ALL FLESH shall see the salvation of God" (Luke 3:5,6).

Yep. All shall see Christ. This again shows universalism how?

"The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto Him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which TAKETH away the sin of the world" (John 1:29).

Yes he does. The question is, do all identify themselves with Christ? Notice the numerous passages in John which speak of condemnation also.

Jesus Christ WILL take away the sins of the world,He won't try to but He will do it because he is capable of that.He came to do that,do we think He will fail to take away the sins of the world?

Nope. I think he succeeded.

"...This is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world" (John 4:42).

This scriptures says that Christ IS the Saviour of the world.Please note that it does not say He is the POTENTIAL SAVIOUR,NO,it says HE IS.If He does not save the world then He does not deserve the title of being called THE SAVIOUR OF THE WORLD.If He is the Saviour of the world then He must save the world to live up to that title.Think about this,if i say James IS the Managing Director then he must carry out duties that correspond with the title,if he cannot then he does not deserve to be the MD.If Jesus does not save the world then He does not deserve to be called the saviour of the world since He is failing to carry out the duties that goes with being the saviour of the world.

Yep. He's the savior of the world, and yet we have the teaching going out telling people how to be saved. (Why pray tell if they already are?)

"For if by one man’s offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by One, Jesus Christ. Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon ALL MEN to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of One the free gift came upon ALL MEN UNTO JUSTIFICATION OF LIFE. For as by one man’s disobedience MANY(ALL)were made sinners, so by the obedience of One shall MANY(ALL)be made righteous" (Romans 5:17-19).

See reply to Sozo above.

Again the scripture says ONE MAN'S OFFECNCE BROUGHT CONDEMNATION TO ALL BUT,BUT,THE THROUGH THE RIOUGHTESOUNESS OF ONE MAN JUSTIFICATION WILL COME TO ALL MAN.The same ALL that was condemned is the VERY same ALL that will be justifies.This is not rocket science is it?Simple stuff!!

And what does verse 17 say?

"For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam ALL DIE, even so in Christ SHALL ALL BE MADE ALIVE. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at His coming. Then cometh the end, when He shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when He shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. For He must reign, till He hath put all enemies under His feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. For He hath put all things under His feet. But when He saith all things are put under Him, it is manifest that He is excepted, which did put all things under Him. And when all things shall be subdued unto Him, then shall the Son also Himself be subject unto Him that put all things under Him, that God may be ALL IN ALL." (I Corinthians 15:21-28).

Again it says we "ALL DIED in Adam" the VERY same ALL will be made ALIVE in Christ.Read your Bible it's all there.

See above again.

"That in the dispensation of the fulness of times He might gather together in one ALL THINGS in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on EARTH; even in Him" (Ephesians 1:10).

If this is taken in this sense, you simply have pantheism. Ephesian 1:4 tells the topic.

"For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, Who is the Saviour of ALL men, specially of those that believe" (I Timothy 4:10).

Savior in this case refers to a preserver.

God IS the Saviour of ALL men,especially of those that believe.It is also important to note that it says "ESPECIALLY of those that believe" not EXCLUSIVELY,meaning that those who believe will be saved in a special nevertheless everyone will be saved because God is the Saviour of ALL men.

Note he says this in spite of saying he desires all men to be saved (Which means they're not all saved) in 2:4. Not everyone makes it.

"Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, MY COUNSEL SHALL STAND, and I WILL DO ALL MY PLEASURE" (Isaiah 46:10).

And how does Isaiah end? What has this to do with universalism?

There are a whole lot of Scriptures which explain in full detail that God will save everyone,He wants to and He desires to.The above Scriptures says "MY COUNSEL SHALL STAND and I WILL DO ALL MY PLEASURE.God will do ALL His pleasure nothing will stop Him.If He cant do ALL His pleasure it means He is a liar.Simple is that

Please read this and tell what you think,i will be glad to bring you more Scriptural proof!!!!

I'm not convinced. If you want a debate, please say so and this will be moved to a debate forum. This forum is NOT a debate forum.

[justsumguy]

A person can be saved from many things. Can a person be perfect? Is God perfect? Can imperfect really be with perfect?

Ok...saved from being imperfect.

And some of the imperfect want the rest of imperfect to think that the some are saved from imperfect because they have either done something or are doing something to either become perfect or excused.

Perhaps some of the salvation is being saved from the advocates of those views.

How about saved from not knowing one is saved? How great would knowing one is saved be? Just what kind of impact would really knowing have on a person?

How can anyone know their salvation when it depends on them having either done something or doing something in order to become perfect or excused?

The truth is, their salvation is always in jeopardy.

So to answer the question...
There being an answer that is not dependent on us is the only way we could possibly know salvation.

Wallah!!!!! The story of Christ. It's perfect. It's the only story there is that gives the perfect in. No criteria. But come on...if a person doesn't accept it as fact...then they don't really know they are saved. What is a person saved from if they accept the fact that Christ is their savior? I know one thing for sure...they are saved from not knowing whether or not they are saved.

Is everyone saved? Don't ask me...but I do know a way everyone can know they are saved.

This entire religious debacle takes on a whole new meaning when believe means believe, faith means faith (substance and evidence - that which substantiates belief) and knowing means knowing.

If you believe you are saved...you dont' know. If you want to know...start looking where you hope really lies and find the substance in that hope (faith)...defining our hope leads to knowing.

The only way I can know anyone is saved is if they know they are saved. If I don't know they are saved, it doesn't mean they aren't, it simply means I don't know.