Must one be born again to be saved?

[Ormly]

Ormly,

Jesus conversation with Nicodemas was about the need for ISRAEL to be reborn. At a critical point, Jesus starts using the plural word "you' must be born again.

Prior to going to the cross, Jesus quoted part of Isaiah 65 which spoke of a rebirth. Jesus took upon himself the identity of the nation of Israel and, in his resurrection, Israel was 'reborn' or born from above.

Psalms two prophecies this event when God, through the Psalmist, says "You are my son, this day have I begotton thee." Peter applies this verse to the resurrection (I think in Acts 13).

When one comes to faith, they become one with Christ and are therefore 'born again'. ALL believers are born again. Born again Christian is a redundant statement. There isn't any other kind.

I don't believe you are correct because, "many are called but few are chosen". How come? Apparently you see no distinction between those who come and those who are chosen?

[The Teacher]

I don't believe you are correct because, "many are called but few are chosen". How come? Apparently you see no distinction between those who come and those who are chosen?

Ormly, I don't think that you have believed I have been correct once so this is no surprise. I have no clue how what you quoted has any relevance to my comment at all.

[Ormly]

Ormly, I don't think that you have believed I have been correct once so this is no surprise. I have no clue how what you quoted has any relevance to my comment at all.

But it has relevance ti what I have said in reply to you. That's why I quoted it. It was an invite for you to explainit/reconcile with your belief system. I don't believe you can.

"Come unto me" is not the same as "I have chosen you" nor does it imply a 'blanket' indwelling simply because you "come unto me". I know far too many who have "come unto me" and nothing has changed in their lives, ergo, I don't believe they belong to Christ, per Rom.8.9. Mind you, I don't believe this is salvation issue. That is why the OP.

[Ormly]

Ormly, I don't think that you have believed I have been correct once so this is no surprise. I have no clue how what you quoted has any relevance to my comment at all.

That is because I believe your house, while sitting upon a strong foundation is nevertheless a crooked one. . . .Not level.

My quote has relevance to what I have said in reply to you. That's why I quoted it. It was an invite for you to explainit/reconcile with your belief system. I don't believe you can.

"Come unto me" is not the same as "I have chosen you" nor does it imply a 'blanket' indwelling simply because you "come unto me". I know far too many who have "come unto me" and nothing has changed in their lives, ergo, I don't believe they belong to Christ per Rom.8.9. Mind you, I don't believe this is salvation issue but something more. That is why the OP.

[Dispen4ever]

With that outlook, how shall you escape if you neglect moving into the "afterward" of your salvation?

I don't understand the question.

:-)

[Ormly]

I don't understand the question.

:-)

Then it is son-ship you don't understand because that is the purpose of salvation.

[Dispen4ever]

Then it is son-ship you don't understand because that is the purpose of salvation.

I don't understand your response. Maybe if you explained "moving into the afterward" I'd get it.

:-)

[Ormly]

I don't understand your response. Maybe if you explained "moving into the afterward" I'd get it.

:-)

Sure. How about reading this first. It will greatly help:

After obedience—what?

And straightway He constrained His disciples to get into the ship, and to go to the other side. . . . Mark 6:45-52.

We are apt to imagine that if Jesus Christ constrains us, and we obey Him, He will lead us to great success. We must never put our dreams of success as God’s purpose for us; His purpose may be exactly the opposite. We have an idea that God is leading us to a particular end, a desired goal; He is not. The question of getting to a particular end is a mere incident. What we call the process, God calls the end.

What is my dream of God’s purpose? His purpose is that I depend on Him and on His power now. If I can stay in the middle of the turmoil calm and unperplexed, that is the end of the purpose of God. God is not working towards a particular finish; His end is the process—that I see Him walking on the waves, no shore in sight, no success, no goal, just the absolute certainty that it is all right because I see Him walking on the sea. It is the process, not the end, which is glorifying to God.

God’s training is for now, not presently. His purpose is for this minute, not for something in the future. We have nothing to do with the afterwards of obedience; we get wrong when we think of the afterwards. What men call training and preparation, God calls the end.

God’s end is to enable me to see that He can walk on the chaos of my life just now. If we have a further end in view, we do not pay sufficient attention to the immediate present; but if we realize that obedience is the end, then each moment as it comes is precious.

Chambers, O. (1993, c1935). My utmost for his highest : Selections for the year (July 28). Grand Rapids, MI: Discovery House Publishers.

[Ormly]

Something to ponder when considering the born again relationship and whether it depends upon our "deciding for Jesus".:

"The distinction between a saved soul and a disciple is fundamental. The stern conditions laid down by Our Lord for discipleship are not the conditions of salvation; discipleship is a much closer and more conscious relationship (see Luke 14:26-27, 33). The secret of discipleship is the Cross of Our Lord Jesus Christ (Galatians 6:14; 1 Corinthians 2:2)."


Chambers, O. (1996, c1943). Bringing sons into glory : Studies in the life of our Lord. London: Marshall, Morgan & Scott.

[Dispen4ever]

In short, once one is saved by grace through faith, one should walk in the footsteps of Jesus to live a happy, fulfilled life in the present. I have no misgivings about that.

On the other hand, if one fails to walk according to God's plan for his/her life, then one is not going to live a happy, fulfilled life in the present. No problems with that, either.

The "born again" experience is instant salvation. Based upon that fact, one follows Jesus, or one does not. The "following" may be obvious 24/7/365, or it may be bumpy, superficial, sin-tossed, straying from the Truth.......stuff like that.

So are we saying the same thing now?

:-)

[Ormly]

[quote=Dispen4ever;2481732]

In short, once one is saved by grace through faith, one should walk in the footsteps of Jesus to live a happy, fulfilled life in the present. I have no misgivings about that.

On the other hand, if one fails to walk according to God's plan for his/her life, then one is not going to live a happy, fulfilled life in the present. No problems with that, either.

I don't believe so. Not quite. Is 'our' happiness what this all about? Or rather overcoming our old nature that demands to remain independent; is at odds with God? Isn't the born again realization to be about learning the Character of the Father unto 'son-ship'-'Joint-heir-ship' in Christ. Does not a Man now sit in the Godhead?

The "born again" experience is instant salvation. Based upon that fact, one follows Jesus, or one does not. The "following" may be obvious 24/7/365, or it may be bumpy, superficial, sin-tossed, straying from the Truth.......stuff like that.

The born again experience is the realization of our privilege in Christ and that we have installed in us the very Nature of the Father as He had while on earth. Simply put, no realization, no living as one who has been chosen by God. It won't happen. There will be no JOY. The "following" will be obvious 24/7/365, and it will be bumpy, un-superficial, full of new convictions and less excuses for straying from the Truth.......stuff like that

[EphremHagos]

Must one be born again to be saved?
"But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his." Romans 8:9 (KJV)

Is not faith in God and the Blood of Jesus sufficient for redemption? Why is the "born again" experience something we consider to be of necessity in the matter? After all, the great commission is not about getting people saved but rather making disciples. I think there is an assumption written in that, don't you?

I believe Paul is not speaking of salvation in Romans 8:9, but rather intimacy with the Father or the striving for it that only by the Spirit within that one can even hope to undertake. As it is written: "Many are called, few chosen", that they might see to enter. Jn 3:3,5. Being chosen to participate is one thing, participating after one is chosen, an entirely different matter. While being chosen doesn't require one to count the cost before proceeding, it nevertheless is something that must be done before proceeding. In this I don't see one's salvation being affected unless it becomes so by neglect and/or, perhaps by an ultimate rejection.

Compare to Gal 2:20

Question: Can I not still live in the flesh after I am born again? (Rom.8:13-16)

If "sound doctrine", according to our model Paul, means the teaching found in the gospel of divine origin entrusted to one personally and firsthand (1 Tim. 1: 10-11) --it's possiblity has not been sufficiently explored of late. Therefore, the answer to Ormly's question can be found exclusively in what Jesus teaches in John 3: 1-21 with follow-up and no where else!!!!

[phase]

it will be bumpy, un-superficial, full of new convictions and less excuses for straying from the Truth.......stuff like that

[EphremHagos]

If "sound doctrine", according to our model Paul, means the teaching found in the gospel of divine origin entrusted to one personally and firsthand (1 Tim. 1: 10-11) --it's possiblity has not been sufficiently explored of late. Therefore, the answer to Ormly's question can be found exclusively in what Jesus teaches in John 3: 1-21 with follow-up and no where else!!!!

To follow up on what I began, let us look into the basics of salvation (or Being Born Again) as taught by Jesus Christ himself --the sole authority.
The context is defined in John 3: 1-21 divided into 4 parts, viz.: the PURPOSE: to "see the Kingdom of God" or to know who Jesus Christ is --used interchangeably (verses 2 and 3); the MANNER: being born of the Spirit (verses 5-6, 8) with detailed follow-up; the TIMING: "the lifting up of the Son of Man" or the death of Jesus Christ on the cross --a critical factor wholly omitted or nominally passed over in today's practice (verses 14-17); and the LITMUS TEST: ("judgement") based on presence of absence of "light" or vision of the self-revealing, immortal Christ and his saving power on the cross (verses 18-21).
Therefore, the answer (in principle) to the question, "Must One One Be Born Again to be Saved?" is fully provided and precludes any salvation "by natural means", i.e., the will and decision of man. The practice of salvation is grounded on the self-revelation of Jesus Christ on the cross as fully developed in succeeding chapters of John --the only full time disciple of the four evangelists.

[Heterodoxus]

Here’s how John 3:3, 5-7 reads from an Aramaic-English rendering:

• 3: …., if [lacuna] human [lacuna] is not born from (the head, or again) they cannot see the Kingdom of [refer to your denominational dogma for your church's preferred ending to this sentence]

• 4: …..

• 5: …., if [lacuna] human [lacuna] is not born from the waters and the Spirit, they cannot enter the Kingdom of [refer to your denominational dogma for your church's preferred ending to this sentence]

• 6: Whoever is born of the flesh, is of the flesh, and whoever is born of the Spirit, is of the Spirit

• 7: … it is expected of you to be born from above

And here’s how the same passage reads in a Greek-English rendering:

• 3: …., unless one regenerates anew from above he is not able to discern the realm of the [refer to your denominational dogma for your church's preferred ending to this sentence]

• 4: …..

• 5: …., unless one regenerates out of water and spirit he is not able to discern the realm of the [refer to your denominational dogma for your church's preferred ending to this sentence]

• 6: the one regenerated out of the spirit is spirit

7: … you must be regenerated anew from above

Now, put this passage into your own words and ask yourself:

• have you been regenerated (“re-born“)?

• have you been regenerated anew (“re-born again“ with both “water and spirit“)?

• Have you been regenerated anew (“born again”) from above?

You don’t need the opinions of other people to decide if Jesus’ words apply to you, or if you’ve complied with them. You either have or you have not.

If you have, then you will know how you should believe and act. If you have not, then what type of spirit is motivating your beliefs and actions?