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Religious Diversity May Be Making America Less Religious

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  • #16
    In a totally anecdotal way, and completely incidental to the topic at hand, our missionaries in China report an explosion of growth among Christian House Churches, and ... um.... 'English teachers' who may or may not be working in N Korea... are asking for another 40,000 Bibles for that country!

    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

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    • #17
      Never really made my mind up about those folks taking bibles into some times third world countries and educating people. Never had a problem with the education bit, it's just the coming with a bible price tag I always was unsure of.

      It's not even the bible itself (obviously), I'd feel the same way about a Torah or Koran.

      Education is good on its own merits, and clearly worth spreading. I don't see why that should come with a religious price tag however. So yes- not made my mind up yet.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by EvoUK View Post
        Never really made my mind up about those folks taking bibles into some times third world countries and educating people. Never had a problem with the education bit, it's just the coming with a bible price tag I always was unsure of.
        What's the "Bible price tag"?
        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by EvoUK View Post
          Never really made my mind up about those folks taking bibles into some times third world countries and educating people. Never had a problem with the education bit, it's just the coming with a bible price tag I always was unsure of.

          It's not even the bible itself (obviously), I'd feel the same way about a Torah or Koran.

          Education is good on its own merits, and clearly worth spreading. I don't see why that should come with a religious price tag however. So yes- not made my mind up yet.
          So what price tag would you put on it? Some socially irrelevant secular junk from a nation they have zero in common with? Trying to use Origin of the Species as a reader? Making some poor kind in India memorize from Politics Among Nations? (Fairly sure that last one violates the Geneva convention - and I LIKE Morganthau!)

          Or maybe letting the people who are willing to sacrifice just to help people in a world totally alien to their own share the reason they are willing to do so might not be so much of a price as a treasure.
          "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

          "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

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          • #20
            If they just need something to read, buy em copies of Harry Potter or something. The issue raised is the coercive nature of the work. The help portrayed as altruistic, but it's not solely that.

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            • #21
              With regard to the OP, I think it's likely that people who religious are going to get a lot of their friends from church / their religious groups, so going to have less religious diversity among their friends than those who aren't religious, so I think the causation works the opposite way to what the OP is suggesting in that instance.

              However, I think this is instructive:
              Originally posted by The Thinker View Post
              [ATTACH=CONFIG]18069[/ATTACH]
              That looks pretty convincing. Moreover it just plain makes sense that greater religious diversity would lead to more people declining to pick a religion. When there's only one religion the default position is to say that you're that religion, because everybody is. But when there's lots and lots of options, then none of the options are any longer the default option, so the default becomes 'no religious view'. William James, one of the few historical philosophers I truly respect, wrote a good essay about defaulting to the default religion given a lack of options, called Will to Believe. He argues that it's actually rational on pragmatic grounds to adopt a religious view if there's a single religious option to pick from.

              Also anyone wanting to convince another person "my religious view is the correct one, you should convert to it" in the modern world has to explain to the person why that religion is right, and why the five other local religions that seem equally plausible, are wrong. Whereas, historically, when there was only one religion on offer in each area, they weren't competing against each other for plausibility.
              "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
              "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
              "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Jaecp View Post
                If they just need something to read, buy em copies of Harry Potter or something. The issue raised is the coercive nature of the work. The help portrayed as altruistic, but it's not solely that.
                Actually, given Christian beliefs, it IS wholly altruistic from the POV of those giving it.
                Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Jaecp View Post
                  If they just need something to read, buy em copies of Harry Potter or something.
                  Feel free to do that. If I'm doing the buying, it's none of your business.
                  The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
                    So what price tag would you put on it? Some socially irrelevant secular junk from a nation they have zero in common with? Trying to use Origin of the Species as a reader? Making some poor kind in India memorize from Politics Among Nations? (Fairly sure that last one violates the Geneva convention - and I LIKE Morganthau!)

                    Or maybe letting the people who are willing to sacrifice just to help people in a world totally alien to their own share the reason they are willing to do so might not be so much of a price as a treasure.
                    No- just teach maths, English/language, science and any other subjects of use to gain a good education and skills needed. I see no reason to include the Bible/Torah/Koran etc any more than I expect someone to preach atheism (whatever that would mean).

                    There's lots of classical literature to provide to teach reading.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by EvoUK View Post
                      No- just teach maths, English/language, science and any other subjects of use to gain a good education and skills needed. I see no reason to include the Bible/Torah/Koran etc any more than I expect someone to preach atheism (whatever that would mean).

                      There's lots of classical literature to provide to teach reading.
                      Okay, do so.

                      But the reality is, education is never spread for its own sake. The university system - what we know as education - all began because Christians began to believe that it was important to know and be able to read Scripture. Christians still believe that and that it is important to give the Good News to all who will hear it. That's our mission - not teaching the three R's because we've nothing better to do. So, getting the proverbial boots on the ground to actually do the educating means getting people willing to fill those boots and others willing to pay for them to be filled. The secular world is perfectly capable of doing the same exact job but they don't because they have no motivation other than altruism to do so. Atheists perfectly willing to grouse forums aren't by and large willing to fill or provide for those boots to teach in the outermost reaches of Nowhere - Christians, because of their ideology, are. What you call the price tag is in fact the goad.
                      "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                      "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                      My Personal Blog

                      My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

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