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Commentary Thread: Christianity Today in the USA

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  • #16
    Isaiah 4:2 In that day the Branch of the Lord will be beautiful and glorious, and the fruit of the land will be the pride and glory of the survivors in Israel. 3 Those who are left in Zion, who remain in Jerusalem, will be called holy, all who are recorded among the living in Jerusalem. 4 The Lord will wash away the filth of the women of Zion; he will cleanse the bloodstains from Jerusalem by a spirit[a] of judgment and a spirit[b] of fire. 5 Then the Lord will create over all of Mount Zion and over those who assemble there a cloud of smoke by day and a glow of flaming fire by night; over everything the glory[c] will be a canopy. 6 It will be a shelter and shade from the heat of the day, and a refuge and hiding place from the storm and rain.

    Isaiah 48 does have purification by fire. Same with 1 Peter 1. 1 Peter 5 doesn't say anything about fire, trials, yes, but no fire. Job mentions purification and likens it to gold, so I guess you can count that one.

    Matthew 3:7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to where he was baptizing, he said to them: “You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the coming wrath? 8 Produce fruit in keeping with repentance. 9 And do not think you can say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham. 10 The ax is already at the root of the trees, and every tree that does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire.

    11 “I baptize you with[b] water for repentance. But after me comes one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with[c] the Holy Spirit and fire. 12 His winnowing fork is in his hand, and he will clear his threshing floor, gathering his wheat into the barn and burning up the chaff with unquenchable fire.”

    This is the opposite of your claim.

    Psalm 66 fits with purification. Ephesians speaks of cleansing with water. Proverbs 17 does fit what you are saying.

    I gave you a chance to prove that I was truly insulting you. Telling the truth is not an insult in my view. Bring forth anything I said about you that was "insulting" and untrue, and I will gladly apologize to you. You turned down that offer, I think that says more about you than it does about me.

    Comment


    • #17
      Christianity today in the USA is a glowing testement of satans awesome power to deceive a whole religion. His uncanny ability to consciously and sub consciously get into the human pathology and mold their belief system.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Mickiel View Post
        Christianity today in the USA is a glowing testement of satans awesome power to deceive a whole religion. His uncanny ability to consciously and sub consciously get into the human pathology and mold their belief system.
        More of you implying that Jesus lied when He said this.

        Matthew 16:18
        And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View Post
          Since Mickiel has labelled me as the "most disrespectful person on TWeb", he won't interact with my points. Can someone else try bringing them to his attention?
          Meh, some people can't be reasoned with.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by OingoBoingo View Post
            Meh, some people can't be reasoned with.
            I don't debate with believers who insult me, then claim its biblical to do so.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Mickiel View Post
              I don't debate with believers who insult me, then claim its biblical to do so.
              This uncanny Christian tactic of insulting others then hideing behind the bible to do it, is another proof of the shape Christianity is in, in the USA. They will insult your parents, your personage, your character and your children, then claim that Jesus did those things. Its one of the most powerful seductions I have ever witnessed satan do on them. They will gang up on you and talk about you like a dog; then claim its scriptural to do it.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Mickiel View Post
                I don't debate with believers who insult me, then claim its biblical to do so.
                You mean because they can prove that you are wrong*?

                *Under the right circumstances anyway. Riposte isn't right in all of them.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Mickiel View Post
                  This uncanny Christian tactic of insulting others then hideing behind the bible to do it, is another proof of the shape Christianity is in, in the USA. They will insult your parents, your personage, your character and your children, then claim that Jesus did those things. Its one of the most powerful seductions I have ever witnessed satan do on them. They will gang up on you and talk about you like a dog; then claim its scriptural to do it.
                  Showing what the Bible says in context is not "hiding behind the Bible". However, paraphrasing verses while only giving an umber is a way to attempt that very thing.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    R.C. Sproul Jr.
                    Jesus Changes Everything
                    Menu +
                    homeblogteachingsresourcesevents Search Thursday, November 7, 2013 What are ten things most American Christians do instinctively that they really, really need to think about in light of Scripture?
                    241. Assume that more education is the answer. We are children of the Enlightenment whose sacrament is education. But the Bible suggests that the problem is not that we are ignorant, but that we are wicked.

                    2. Assume that we can take fire to our bosom and not get burned. The world has set the bar of sexual morality so low that we think we stand tall, only to see ourselves fall. Whether it is in the media we consume, or how we interact with those around us, we are always just a small step from seduction by the immoral woman of Proverbs. Her pathway leads to death and her guests are in hell.

                    3. Assume that we are owed a living. While those on the left might presume upon the state for provision, those on the right are tempted to believe their employer, or even the market, owes them a living, and a living they are happy with. When the market fails to provide what we think we are owed, we grumble at best, use the state to our advantage at worst.

                    4. Related to the above, we assume the future will be more prosperous than the past. Thus we consume more than we produce, and as borrowers become slaves to lenders.

                    5. Assume that we are not so bad as all that. We are experts at belittling our sins, and are blessed to have a wicked world to compare ourselves to. We may confess with our lips that we are sinners, but in our sinful hearts we tend to think ourselves rather fine fellows. We fail to enter into our wretchedness.

                    6. Assume that God doesn’t really care what we do in a given circumstance. We are willfully ignorant of the law of God. And after a constant diet of sermons urging us to be nice, we have come to the comfortable conclusion that the only thing God wants from us is to be nice. His law is just a vague compendium of obscure, likely abrogated commands that, when you filter it reduces down to “Be nice.” Given number 5, we, when confronted in our sin, just assume the one confronting us is a mean-spirited legalist that isn’t as gracious as we are.

                    7. Assume that a good education will get you a good job, and a good job a good life. The American Dream is not the measure of a life well lived.

                    8. Assume that the motives of those outside the kingdom are the same as those inside the kingdom. The capital the western world borrowed from the Christian faith has been spent, and the world is in default. While we, in acknowledging the depth and the scope of our sin ought to see the connection between our failures and theirs, we too must acknowledge the work of the Spirit in us, that they lack.

                    9. Assume that if you have made someone angry, you are to blame. In an age of political correctness we have come not only to assume that if someone takes offense we have given it, but that such necessarily puts us in the wrong. The gospel is still an offense, and if our proclamation of it doesn’t offend men, it likely offends our Lord.

                    10. Assume that listening to, reading, watching the right stuff will keep us safe. It is what comes out of a man’s heart that defiles him. The devil has a better library and playlist than any of us, and he still hates God.

                    The solution? Repent, and believe the gospel.


                    Interesting peice about Christianity in the USA.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View Post
                      Showing what the Bible says in context is not "hiding behind the Bible". However, paraphrasing verses while only giving an umber is a way to attempt that very thing.
                      new amen button

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Mickiel View Post
                        R.C. Sproul Jr.
                        Jesus Changes Everything
                        Menu +
                        homeblogteachingsresourcesevents Search Thursday, November 7, 2013 What are ten things most American Christians do instinctively that they really, really need to think about in light of Scripture?
                        241. Assume that more education is the answer. We are children of the Enlightenment whose sacrament is education. But the Bible suggests that the problem is not that we are ignorant, but that we are wicked.

                        2. Assume that we can take fire to our bosom and not get burned. The world has set the bar of sexual morality so low that we think we stand tall, only to see ourselves fall. Whether it is in the media we consume, or how we interact with those around us, we are always just a small step from seduction by the immoral woman of Proverbs. Her pathway leads to death and her guests are in hell.

                        3. Assume that we are owed a living. While those on the left might presume upon the state for provision, those on the right are tempted to believe their employer, or even the market, owes them a living, and a living they are happy with. When the market fails to provide what we think we are owed, we grumble at best, use the state to our advantage at worst.

                        4. Related to the above, we assume the future will be more prosperous than the past. Thus we consume more than we produce, and as borrowers become slaves to lenders.

                        5. Assume that we are not so bad as all that. We are experts at belittling our sins, and are blessed to have a wicked world to compare ourselves to. We may confess with our lips that we are sinners, but in our sinful hearts we tend to think ourselves rather fine fellows. We fail to enter into our wretchedness.

                        6. Assume that God doesn’t really care what we do in a given circumstance. We are willfully ignorant of the law of God. And after a constant diet of sermons urging us to be nice, we have come to the comfortable conclusion that the only thing God wants from us is to be nice. His law is just a vague compendium of obscure, likely abrogated commands that, when you filter it reduces down to “Be nice.” Given number 5, we, when confronted in our sin, just assume the one confronting us is a mean-spirited legalist that isn’t as gracious as we are.

                        7. Assume that a good education will get you a good job, and a good job a good life. The American Dream is not the measure of a life well lived.

                        8. Assume that the motives of those outside the kingdom are the same as those inside the kingdom. The capital the western world borrowed from the Christian faith has been spent, and the world is in default. While we, in acknowledging the depth and the scope of our sin ought to see the connection between our failures and theirs, we too must acknowledge the work of the Spirit in us, that they lack.

                        9. Assume that if you have made someone angry, you are to blame. In an age of political correctness we have come not only to assume that if someone takes offense we have given it, but that such necessarily puts us in the wrong. The gospel is still an offense, and if our proclamation of it doesn’t offend men, it likely offends our Lord.

                        10. Assume that listening to, reading, watching the right stuff will keep us safe. It is what comes out of a man’s heart that defiles him. The devil has a better library and playlist than any of us, and he still hates God.

                        The solution? Repent, and believe the gospel.


                        Interesting peice about Christianity in the USA.
                        You do know he's saying the opposite of what you are saying, right? Something tells me that with your reading comprehension, that would be a no.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View Post
                          Yeah, which is why it's referred to as "eternal punishment", and torment that will leave the people without "rest day or night forever".

                          Jude 1:7
                          In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.

                          Revelation 14:11
                          And the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever. There will be no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.”

                          Yeah, "purification" really fits those descriptions.
                          new amen button

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View Post
                            More of you implying that Jesus lied when He said this.

                            Matthew 16:18
                            And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.
                            new amen button

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View Post
                              Wrong verse Mickiel, we will gladly admit that there is a different context and understanding in this verse. The other verses mentioned have a different context, and mean something entirely different to what you are trying to say here.
                              new amen button

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View Post
                                You do know he's saying the opposite of what you are saying, right? Something tells me that with your reading comprehension, that would be a no.
                                new amen button

                                Comment

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