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This is the forum to discuss the spectrum of views within Christianity on God's foreknowledge and election such as Calvinism, Arminianism, Molinism, Open Theism, Process Theism, Restrictivism, and Inclusivism, Christian Universalism and what these all are about anyway. Who is saved and when is/was their salvation certain? How does God exercise His sovereignty and how powerful is He? Is God timeless and immutable? Does a triune God help better understand God's love for mankind?

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Atheists are welcome to discuss and debate these issues in the Apologetics 301 or General Theistics 101 forum without such restrictions. Theists who wish to discuss these issues outside the parameters of orthodox Christian doctrine are invited to Unorthodox Theology 201.

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Reason alone?

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  • Reason alone?

    This is the first of many expected posts... thoughts from my theology class.

    I was reading about 'Enlightenment rationalism' wherein it was thought that all knowledge could be built rationally upon self-evident first principles plus reason. Euclidean geometry was one of the celebrated concepts due to its internal consistency. However later non-Euclidean geometry systems were developed which also showed such internal consistency. It eventually became evident that there was no solitary starting point ('self-evident first principles') upon which to build a solid foundation for all subsequent knowledge. There would always be alternative foundations which would lead to an equally justifiable difference of conclusion (i.e. from another persons' concept built on a different foundation).

    In apologetics this speaks against those who claim to achieve the superior position by the power of reason alone. (This was not a specific idea raised in the discussion on theology. So the main discussion was that issues of theology could not be developed solely on rationalism derived from first principles.)
    Last edited by mikewhitney; 08-29-2016, 11:24 AM.

  • #2
    The question becomes how does one identify first principles?
    . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

    . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

    Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

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    • #3
      A quote from Pope John Paul II

      Originally posted by John Paul II
      My Venerable Brother Bishops, Health and the Apostolic Blessing!

      Faith and reason are like two wings on which the human spirit rises to the contemplation of truth; and God has placed in the human heart a desire to know the truth—in a word, to know himself—so that, by knowing and loving God, men and women may also come to the fullness of truth about themselves (cf. Ex 33:18; Ps 27:8-9; 63:2-3; Jn 14:8; 1 Jn 3:2).
      Source Paul, Pope John, II. "FIDES ET RATIO (Faith and Reason) Pope John Paul II." WWW.EWTN.COM. N.p., 1979. Web. 31 Aug. 2016.
      MLA Format
      A happy family is but an earlier heaven.
      George Bernard Shaw

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      • #4
        I’m basing my comments on early sections of James Livingston’s “Modern Christian Thought,” though obviously I’m abbreviating

        I don’t think it’s quite fair to say that the Enlightenment believed in reason alone, although it did believe in reason as the way we judge what is true.

        The Enlightenment had as its basic principles freedom from traditional authority, and reason as the judge of everything. But that does not mean that all thought was based on pure reason.

        In some areas, science was a model. This was reasonable, but it was reason dealing with empirical evidence. Reason was also applied to religion. While in some cases this was a radical anti-religious campaign, that approach was certainly not universal. There was an attempt to discover a universal, natural religion. Revelation was also used by some, as long as we could be sure that it actually came from God. Not all writers in the Enlightenment were atheist or deist, though many were.

        This was the period when Biblical criticism and modern theology started. In my view, the earliest Biblical criticism was overly skeptical, but that was corrected over time. Today’s critical scholarship is connected in many ways to the enlightenment, while not sharing its radical skepticism.

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        • #5
          I believe the first principle to be the one fundamental self evident truth of all self evident truths. It has been called "necessary being" or "necessary existence" which is in contrast to "contingent existence." The "necessary existence" being the "uncaused existence." And "contingent existence" being "caused existence." Truth being defined by what exists. By what is reality. Truth being immutable - absolute.
          . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

          . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

          Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

          Comment

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