Springer in the news ... wow!

[HMS_Beagle]

I have to say, i've only ever seen the argument that evolution isn't compatible with the 2nd law of thermodynamics from creationists. I've never seen any serious scientist take issue with this.

But according to Clucky it's an "open question". That's what passes for science in YECkie-land.

[Raphael]

A big BS to that.

Okay, then it's ALL "opinions" and no one is accountable for anything - you okay with that?
No, of course you won't be "okay" with that. You're also a double-standard hypocrite.

Go back to doing whatever you were, Raphael.

Jorge

Jorge, You know our rules around calling people liars, I know you do because I know you've been dinged for it many many many times over the years. It is incumbent on you to prove that the person is lying. Not on the other person to prove they are not lying.
And someone expressing their OPINION, even if I think their opinion is wrong doesn't make them a liar.

I think Beagle is wrong on a number of issues (there is a lot more that I agree with you on than I agree with him on). But I don't think he is lying about it when he gives his opinion of those issues.

[rogue06]

I have to say, i've only ever seen the argument that evolution isn't compatible with the 2nd law of thermodynamics from creationists. I've never seen any serious scientist take issue with this.

Its like they cannot comprehend that earth is not a closed system what with all that energy pouring down onto it by the sun.

[HMS_Beagle]

Its like they cannot comprehend that earth is not a closed system what with all that energy pouring down onto it by the sun.

...and they've never heard of endothermic chemical reactions.

[Jorge]

I have to say, i've only ever seen the argument that evolution isn't compatible with the 2nd law of thermodynamics from creationists. I've never seen any serious scientist take issue with this.

That's because the "serious scientists" you speak of either don't understand the argument and/or have been exposed to the cartoon version of it and greedily embrace that version because it suits their agenda.

Many years ago (>14) I bought and read Ernst Mayr's book What Evolution IS. I wrote a review on it. So here was this PhD, world-renowned Evolution Apostle and even he posted the cartoon version of the 2nd Law argument. Mayr died (at age 100 if memory serves me) remaining in his ignorance and/or dishonesty.

You see, Lurcho, I've been around the block quite a lot and know where many of the bodies are buried. You people are either as ignorant as the year is long or, sadly, very dishonest. NOTE: I am not here accusing you of being dishonest (in this specific instance). What I am saying is that the only way to make a pig fly is with lies, cheating and dishonesty - otherwise the pig simply plops to the ground, as well it should.

Jorge

[HMS_Beagle]

That's because the "serious scientists" you speak of either don't understand the argument and/or have been exposed to the cartoon version of it and greedily embrace that version because it suits their agenda.

Sorry Clucky but anyone who thinks evolutionary processes violate the 2LoT is a scientifically illiterate moron. I'm sure that group includes you.

[Jorge]

Jorge, You know our rules around calling people liars, I know you do because I know you've been dinged for it many many many times over the years. It is incumbent on you to prove that the person is lying. Not on the other person to prove they are not lying.
And someone expressing their OPINION, even if I think their opinion is wrong doesn't make them a liar.

I think Beagle is wrong on a number of issues (there is a lot more that I agree with you on than I agree with him on). But I don't think he is lying about it when he gives his opinion of those issues.

Okay, fine, so then I too was only "giving my opinion" and so he needs to shut up, Moderator R06 needs to shut up instead of demanding from me things that he won't demand from Beagle Boy and you also need to remain silent PLUS send the same message to Beagle Boy, namely, "Jorge was just expressing his opinion and so you cannot be making any demands from him."

Funny thing, I could not find that message/post anywhere.

It's got to be a single, fair standard applied to all - agreed? Otherwise, what is this?


Jorge

[Jorge]

Sorry Clucky but anyone who thinks evolutionary processes violate the 2LoT is a scientifically illiterate moron. I'm sure that group includes you.

Thanks for providing the first evidence of the cartoon version that I was referring to.
You do not disappoint, Beagle Boy.

Jorge

[HMS_Beagle]

Thanks for providing the first evidence of the cartoon version that I was referring to.
You do not disappoint, Beagle Boy.

Thanks for providing confirmation your bogus "Cornell" Creationist conference was full of clowns and cartoons, because that's exactly what your fellow Creationist clown Granville Sewell argued at your "symposium"

Entropy, Evolution and Open Systems

Granville Sewell

"Thus unless we are willing to argue that the influx of solar energy into the Earth makes the appearance of spaceships, computers and the Internet not extremely improbable, we have to conclude that at least the basic principle behind the second law has in fact been violated here."

[Jedidiah]

Okay, fine, so then I too was only "giving my opinion" and so he needs to shut up, Moderator R06 needs to shut up instead of demanding from me things that he won't demand from Beagle Boy and you also need to remain silent PLUS send the same message to Beagle Boy, namely, "Jorge was just expressing his opinion and so you cannot be making any demands from him."

Funny thing, I could not find that message/post anywhere.

It's got to be a single, fair standard applied to all - agreed? Otherwise, what is this?


Jorge

Calling someone a liar is more than just an opinion. It is a claim that someone has made a false statement, knowing that it was false. If that is the case it is incumbent on the accuser to support that claim.

[oxmixmudd]

Okay, fine, so then I too was only "giving my opinion" and so he needs to shut up, Moderator R06 needs to shut up instead of demanding from me things that he won't demand from Beagle Boy and you also need to remain silent PLUS send the same message to Beagle Boy, namely, "Jorge was just expressing his opinion and so you cannot be making any demands from him."

Funny thing, I could not find that message/post anywhere.

It's got to be a single, fair standard applied to all - agreed? Otherwise, what is this?


Jorge

They are all trying to be fair Jorge. You just can't recognize it. The fact you don't seem to have a clue how to support an argument with evidence and often make things up as you go, ignoring the actual facts (e.g. the quote in my sig) doesn't help.


Jim

[rwatts]

I have to say, i've only ever seen the argument that evolution isn't compatible with the 2nd law of thermodynamics from creationists. I've never seen any serious scientist take issue with this.

Well when you think about it, to evolve, organisms have to be alive. Just being alive generates entropy. Competing and cooperating generate it. Reproducing generates it. For a bit of DNA to mutate, work has to be done on the chemical bonds, and entropy is generated.

It's hard to envisage any process within evolution that does not generate entropy.

[Jorge]

Calling someone a liar is more than just an opinion. It is a claim that someone has made a false statement, knowing that it was false. If that is the case it is incumbent on the accuser to support that claim.

Shut up, "Jedidiah"!

If you're not going to be fair and impartial then your best action is to keep your pie-hole closed.

Jorge

[Jorge]

They are all trying to be fair Jorge. You just can't recognize it. The fact you don't seem to have a clue how to support an argument with evidence and often make things up as you go, ignoring the actual facts (e.g. the quote in my sig) doesn't help.

Jim

Once again I see you making liberal use of your New Age Dictionary.



If you're not going to be fair and impartial then your best action is to keep your pie-hole closed.


BTW, still waiting to hear your stance on Hillary Clinton. Was I 'spot on'?


Jorge

[Sparko]

Moderated By: Sparko

Enjoy your vacation Jorge. I am banning you for a month for accusations of lying, flaming, abusing the staff and being a general asshat. Executive decision. If you don't want to make it permanent, behave when you come back.

***If you wish to take issue with this notice DO NOT do so in this thread.***
Contact the forum moderator or an administrator in Private Message or email instead. If you feel you must publicly complain or whine, please take it to the Padded Room unless told otherwise.