FEATURED MEMBER ARTICLE: Temporary Vs. Eternal by ApologiaPhoenix

[JonLanceBarker]

It's not Trout's article; he just published it. The author is ApologiaPhoenix.

[humanevitae]

It's not Trout's article; he just published it. The author is ApologiaPhoenix.

Thank you. I just realized it was written by ApologiaPhoenix.

[humanevitae]

I only got as far as this supercilious nonsense:

'Granted that being a Christian is not about going to Heaven, but it is part of the package. '

- and lost any interest in reading further.

This is the sort of meaningless new age drivel I'd expect to hear shouted over a microphone at a gathering of happy clappers.

If being a Christian isn't about going to 'Heaven' (capital H because apparently it represents a physical place with an actual name), then it must be the greatest neurotic guilt disorder in history.

Part of 'the package'? What sort of childish metaphore is this to use for a concept that is so elusive as to have confounded the greatest thinkers on earth? To compartmentalise the being of a Christian as a 'package' suggest an extraordinarily naive and probably an over-emotionalised response to one of the profound mysteries of creation.

One thing is certain however - Christianity is many things, and there are many things that it isn't - but its entire foundation is based upon an obscure offer of salvation. The best that I can make of this is that it offers a new communion with the creator, without the inherent impediments of temptation and disobedience. Call such a situation heaven if you like, but to call it Heaven (Map43, N5) is absolute absurdity. There is a night club I know of called Heaven - watched the Rollins Band there once but didn't meet any gods (or godesses, sadly).

If being a Christian is not all about the lucrative gift of salvation, or heaven, (or Heaven??), then you must be suggesting that Christians are possessed of an inate desire to obey the creator for the mere sake of it - because it is in our nature to do so. Yet not only would this make the offer of salvation redundant, it would also logically oppose another Christian fundamental, that humankind is born into disobedience.

I conclude by proclaiming that my first foray into this web site has been a disappointment.

It's actually understandable why an atheist would not think very positively of Heaven. Then, on the other hand every pagan people that ever existed believed in a god or gods. They would think that you are wierd.
Going to Heaven was actually a new thing at the time of Christ. No one had ever gone to Heaven before Jesus was crucified. No Jews, no pagans, no pantheists. This idea of Heaven came from Christianity. From the time of Adam and Eve, man has been barred from the gates of Heaven. It was the sacrifice of Jesus that permitted those doors to be opened.
Atheists, over the last 350 years have tried to close those gates again, but, thank God, they are poweless to do that.
Viva La Christianity.

Humane Vitae

[justsumguy]

I also balked at the statement that being a Christian is not about going to Heaven. But no worries, I didn’t have a conniption fit over it. The author mentioned believing that a restoration of this world is in order and it’s beauty and grandeur will far surpass Eden. I think Jedi Ubes may be thinking of Heaven more along the lines of the realm of God. That which truly is…perfect eternity. In my case…perfect eternity is my hope, therefore the substance of what I hope for is Heaven itself. Heaven is my faith. Every purpose, every event, all that relates to us being in the presence of our creator comes from Heaven. Jesus came to make it possible for me to be with God. All things work together for good? The ulimate good is Heaven. God’s love? Heaven. Eternity? Heaven.

Temporary verses Eternal? It’s the world verses Heaven. The world would be that which is not Heaven. Everything that is not Heaven.

Let me make it clear and this not an opinion…

There is nothing other than Heaven. There can be nothing other than Heaven. There is only one thing that can truly be known…and that is perfect eternity. That which is. That which does not end and is not subject to other than it. That is the God of the Bible.

Yes, Paul has a very good grasp of Heaven. He doesn’t admonish us to take peeks at that which is unseen, or spend an hour a day looking at that which is unseen…he admonishes us to FIX our eyes on Heaven.

Paul wasn’t playing a game of mysterious religious jargon when he wrote the letters. Throughout this site I see much of the same thing I see in the NT and what I see throughout history; believers clinging to the illusion of reality presented by the temporal world; their religion, their self and their God being defined by the temporal world. It’s not mysterious, it’s very, very simple. Temporal is defined by measure. There is no measure of eternity.

Pretend with me for just a few minutes. Consider that these verses are not mysterious. Consider that Paul knew that perfect eternity was reality and the world was not. Pretend that Paul is addressing believers today and there are those whose reality is Heaven and there are those whose eyes are fixed on Heaven and there are those whose eyes are fixed on the world and those who have fixed their eyes on the world have become vain in their imaginations.

Pretend for a few minutes that there are believers who know salvation, know Jesus Christ, know God and know Heaven. They have taken their eyes off of the world (they do not define the scriptures, their self or God through the temporal world). They are dead to sin. The world has no dominion over them. All of these things are not goals to be reached while battling the illusion of temporal reality, they are the only reality.

Just pretend for a few minutes…

Rom. 1:20
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

Pretend it’s talking about what is generally accepted as Christianity.
It’s funny how so much of Christianity uses the next verses to grab onto the throats of homosexuals while totally ignoring all the rest of the things that would apply to them…

Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen

He sure isn’t talking about atheists. I’m supposed to believe he’s talking about backsliders? I say he’s talking about those who have changed the good news into a lie. Spokespersons for Christianity who have spent a major portion of their lives telling everyone to repent, only to tell them that they can’t know their salvation have been known to fall into perversion…I won’t give a list of examples.

But how many of the finger pointers fall victim to the rest of the list?
Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

I find the last three things in the list quite interesting…without understanding (that’s what a lot of the accusatory christian church actually teach…we cannot understand), implacable (that’s what they teach…we can’t really be saved), unmerciful (hell and the vengeance of a God who has to be just and punish homosexuals…not themselves)

I have to be joking? Well…we can just go to the next verse…

Romans 2:1
Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.

And I’m supposed to believe Paul was talking about homosexuality? No…it’s clear who Paul is talking to…he’s talking to the same people who Jesus was talking to…Paul is talking to those called by Christ…it’s just that it didn’t take long for those called by Christ to act like Pharisees.

Am I off topic? No. This is all about our eyes not being fixed on eternity…look at the next verse…
Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?

Again…the riches of his goodness and forebearance and longsuffering comes from Heaven. If these people’s eyes were fixated on Heaven, they wouldn’t be inexcusable for judging. They would be overtaken by God’s goodness and forebearance and longsuffering.

I won’t go on right now…I can do this through chapter after chapter, book after book.

I’ll end it with 2:7-9
To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

It’s time for the accusatory christian church to be exposed for what it is…
Inexcusable. Of the temporal world.

[justsumguy]

Thank God the accusatory christian church is temporary.