Pagan Theology (Pagans and pagan FRIENDLY folks only)

[Cu Mhorrigan]

I am curious about how some of us examine the things we believe in about the Gods and how we get our beliefs across to others.
Take myself for example: I am by no means a Wiccan, I do not subscribe to the "All gods are The Lord and All Goddesses are the Lady" concept of divinity If anything I tend to be more of a Polytheist, seeing the "Deithe" as great beings that have helped to shape the various cultures they were worshiped in. I kind of came across this Idea as one that I have always believed in even when I was a fundamentalist christian (Believe me, this concept caused me no end of grief within and without) and it's one that makes sense to me, but I have a hard time explaining it in theological terms. It was something I just "Knew" and believed once I "came home" and in some of my more mystical moments it was confirmed time and time again. This included having "seen" Kali-Mau in the place where my mom received her Chemo (she is doing well No problems with her health, thank the Gods!)
I digress, I guess My question is how do you, my fellow pagans, get your theological beliefs in your own walk? Is it through Study, Meditation, Shamanic visions or something else altogether?

[Seri]

I generally subscribe to a more symbolic pantheism. I don't experience individualized deities, but rather energy that I associate with the Lord and Lady. When I need to know something specific, recognizable symbols appear to me, be it familiar people, emotions, or the right reading of the tarot. I do not believe that the whole of existence was "created" by divinity, but that energy coalesced on multiple levels of existence simultaneously (As above, so below, as below, so above) and that this energy is ever-present. Every day I live is a testament to this viewpoint as I watch, feel, and live the flow of energy throughout existence, from preparing meals to sleeping, spending time at work to spending time with my significant other.

When I meditate, I attempt to attune myself with these energies to a greater degree most of the time, though I spent a bit of time yesterday meditating on the divine numbers (1, 2, 3, 4, 7) and how that applies to my faith and life. My general growth of knowledge is through the experience of living out what I believe. Everything else is secondary.

[MichelleA]

Interesting. My ideas have come from a lifetime search for my own essential truth. Paganism was my last stop. I looked at the gods and their stories and all left me cold. They just were not real to me, I couldn't force myself to believe in them no matter what I tried. Then one day Inanna made herself known to me. She was definitely real and immediate. She claimed me, then I got to know all the Sumerian gods and have taken the whole pantheon as my gods, not just one or two. All are real to me, as real as I am right now. I see them as living and breathing beings, simply living in a higher dimension than what we live on. And because I have been touched by them and accept them as real, I have come to see all the other gods as real entities as well. It has opened up a whole new dimension to my life.

What has helped me is the journey I have taken through many other religions to get here. Also, I am studying religions studies at uni to get a much deeper grasp on it all. A lot of time spent in New Age beliefs has helped greatly as well. Now I need to spend a lot more time reading up about Sumerian beliefs so I can hone my religious practice to them.

[andrasnm]

Paganism as I see, incorporates the "Ancient Wisdom", which was communicated to interested parties but never advertised or promoted, LONG before the world's major religions. If you study Joseph Campbell or read the Golden Bough you would understand what I mean. Further, All religions degenerate after about a 100 years in existence. They become political, dogmatic and cliquish.

[technomage]

Paganism as I see, incorporates the "Ancient Wisdom", which was communicated to interested parties but never advertised or promoted, LONG before the world's major religions.

Most of the things attributed as "ancient wisdom" are actually relatively recent, compared to Judaism or Hinduism.

Further, All religions degenerate after about a 100 years in existence.

100 years? You are an optimist!

Seriously, have you ever read Rudyard Kipling's "The Disciple"?

[andrasnm]

actually I am an optimist and 100-years is a max number. I never said it cannot deteriorate faster....

[umbro]

actually I am an optimist and 100-years is a max number. I never said it cannot deteriorate faster....

Deterioration and renewal are natural cycles.

All religions are pagan in origin, especially Christianity. And its time for renewal

.

[technomage]

Deterioration and renewal are natural cycles.

They are--but change and adaptation are also part of the same natural cycle. Perhaps the issue here is that some people within a religion see change as 'deterioration."

All religions are pagan in origin, especially Christianity. And its time for renewal

While I tend to agree, I also have to note that the word "pagan," unless closely defined, is well nigh useless in the context of the discussion. As it stands, we who are Pagans probably mean something radically different than you (as a self-identified Christian) mean by the word. Would you care to explain how you are using "pagan" in the sentence above?

[technomage]

actually I am an optimist

Believe me, my statement was not condemnation.

[Krusader]

Believe me, my statement was not condemnation.

Glad to see you're okay. Ath

[umbro]

They are--but change and adaptation are also part of the same natural cycle. Perhaps the issue here is that some people within a religion see change as 'deterioration."

like I said deterioration means renewel has begun.

While I tend to agree, I also have to note that the word "pagan," unless closely defined, is well nigh useless in the context of the discussion. As it stands, we who are Pagans probably mean something radically different than you (as a self-identified Christian) mean by the word. Would you care to explain how you are using "pagan" in the sentence above?

Absolute submission to the will of the force of creation.

[technomage]

Absolute submission to the will of the force of creation.

Hmmm ... depending on what you mean by "the will of the force of creation," there are no Pagans.

Creation as a whole has no will--no volition. Yes, individual people and animals within creation (themselves created and thus part of creation) have volition, but the entire assemblage does not.

The Creator, on the other hand, has will. But from my (admittedly limited and fallable) understanding of the Creator, He/She does not want us to submit to His/Her will, but to exercise our own will in a way that demonstrates maturity.

[umbro]

Hmmm ... depending on what you mean by "the will of the force of creation," there are no Pagans.

We are all pagans, the extent that we practice depends on the extent of our submission.

Creation as a whole has no will--no volition. Yes, individual people and animals within creation (themselves created and thus part of creation) have volition, but the entire assemblage does not

.
I do disagree with this, dig deeper. In the acorn lies the bluprint for the mighty Oak, so too with man, so too with the cosmos.

The Creator, on the other hand, has will. But from my (admittedly limited and fallable) understanding of the Creator, He/She does not want us to submit to His/Her will, but to exercise our own will in a way that demonstrates maturity.

And what does that maturity consist of?

I submit: submission.

[technomage]

I do disagree with this, dig deeper. In the acorn lies the bluprint for the mighty Oak, so too with man, so too with the cosmos.

"Quod est inferius est sicut quod est superius." But I also have to remember that while I speak to people who understand that mystery, I also speak to people who do not--and sometimes I have to "translate" between the two views.

[umbro]

Thomas:22 Jesus said to them, "When you make the two into one, and when you make the inner like the outer and the outer like the inner, and the upper like the lower, and when you make male and female into a single one, so that the male will not be male nor the female be female, when you make eyes in place of an eye, a hand in place of a hand, a foot in place of a foot, an image in place of an image, then you will enter the kingdom.