Common Issues In Discussions With Skeptics?

[TheWall]

Hey what do you guys think is worse. Christ mythers or Christ is a copy of pagan god screechers?

[rogue06]

Hey what do you guys think is worse. Christ mythers or Christ is a copy of pagan god screechers?

Many are in both groups.

[Adrift]

Whenever I do get in arguements which I try not to it always goes to canards. You know stuff like.
1. The spanish inquisition.
2. Galileo
3. The SS belts
4. Stuff ripped straight out of Alexander Hislop.
5. Out of context verses
That kind of stuff.

I'm not familiar with SS belts or Alexander Hislop. What's that about?

[Adrift]

Honestly as someone who once used sych canards I am amazed at how I could have broken them easily with some research

What's a sych canard?

[Adrift]

That always reminds me of the Holocaust survivor I met about 10-15 years ago who showed me his 'tattoo', and told me how he cried when the German guy tattooed his number on his arm, because he was an observant Jew....

If I recall correctly, his concern (as a young man) was that he wouldn't be allowed to be buried in his family cemetery with his Jewish mother.

Yeah, it's a pretty grievous issue for a Jewish person. I'm assuming the Nazis knew that full well. I believe that there are passages in the Talmud that exempt those who have these things forced upon them, and also, technically, commentators believe the prohibition explicitly concerns pagan ritual practice, and is tied to protections for or against the dead. That obviously is not the intent of most people today, or of those who were forced tattooed.

Though I do like them, I don't wear any tattoos personally.

[Cow Poke]

Yeah, it's a pretty grievous issue for a Jewish person. I'm assuming the Nazis knew that full well. I believe that there are passages in the Talmud that exempt those who have these things forced upon them, and also, technically, commentators believe the prohibition explicitly concerns pagan ritual practice, and is tied to protections for or against the dead. That obviously is not the intent of most people today, or of those who were forced tattooed.

Though I do like them, I don't wear any tattoos personally.

I might clarify that there is no Jewish "law" I know of that prohibits a Jew with a tattoo from being buried in a Jewish cemetery. I think most Jewish cemeteries have their own guidelines and rules for who can and who cannot be buried there. It would be up to the local body to determine that, and I can't imagine a local body denying burial to the family member of their congregation because he was "marked" against his will.

Meanwhile, it won't be long before there are no more holocaust survivors walking our planet, and it reminds me of the story of the young Jewish man who wanted his arm tattooed like his Survivor father's as a constant reminder....

The case you speak of involves Dr. Ron Folman, whose father was initially appalled at the idea but eventually relented. Yeshiyahu Folman actually went to the tattoo studio with his son and rolled up his sleeve so that an exact duplicate could be made. The father called it "an act of solidarity," but a painful one that would burden his son for the rest of his life. No doubt it has added to the father's burden as well.

As if there weren't enough to burden him. In fact, to a degree, we all carry that burden - and we should. Just not on our arms.

And I also have no tattoos. Just never occurred to me I needed one.

[TheWall]

Alexander Hislop was a "historian" who claimed that a bunch of pagan practices were turned into christianity.
He is most well known because of a book by Ralph Woodrow called mystery babylon. Woodrow however later recanted that book.

[TheWall]

As for the Ss belts well the SS would have bible verses engraved on their belts. Hitler kinda started a cult.

[Adrift]

I might clarify that there is no Jewish "law" I know of that prohibits a Jew with a tattoo from being buried in a Jewish cemetery. I think most Jewish cemeteries have their own guidelines and rules for who can and who cannot be buried there. It would be up to the local body to determine that, and I can't imagine a local body denying burial to the family member of their congregation because he was "marked" against his will.

Meanwhile, it won't be long before there are no more holocaust survivors walking our planet, and it reminds me of the story of the young Jewish man who wanted his arm tattooed like his Survivor father's as a constant reminder....

The case you speak of involves Dr. Ron Folman, whose father was initially appalled at the idea but eventually relented. Yeshiyahu Folman actually went to the tattoo studio with his son and rolled up his sleeve so that an exact duplicate could be made. The father called it "an act of solidarity," but a painful one that would burden his son for the rest of his life. No doubt it has added to the father's burden as well.

As if there weren't enough to burden him. In fact, to a degree, we all carry that burden - and we should. Just not on our arms.

And I also have no tattoos. Just never occurred to me I needed one.

I had actually heard about that case on a Jewish podcast recently. If I remember correctly, the daughter of the son also eventually got the same tattoo, and he protested it in the same way that his father protested his getting that tattoo.

[Jedidiah]

Though I do like them, I don't wear any tattoos personally.

I do not like the concept of tattoos, I did not like them when I was an unbeliever. Why in the world would anyone want a tattoo? My negative view is unrelated to my faith. I feel the same about pierced ears, so I am a little weird I guess.

[TheWall]

Anyone else get annoyed when people say we dont understand science?

[Adrift]

Alexander Hislop was a "historian" who claimed that a bunch of pagan practices were turned into christianity.
He is most well known because of a book by Ralph Woodrow called mystery babylon. Woodrow however later recanted that book.

Oh ok.

As for the Ss belts well the SS would have bible verses engraved on their belts. Hitler kinda started a cult.

I see. I wonder how long Hitler would have tolerated that after the war where there were plans on eliminating Christianity from Germany altogether.

[rogue06]

As for the Ss belts well the SS would have bible verses engraved on their belts. Hitler kinda started a cult.

IIRC, various units of the German military had "God is With Us" on belt buckles for quite awhile before the SS later adopted it.

[TheWall]

Huh. See mr holding has an entire book on Hitler that looks pretty good. He also has a whole bunch of anti conspiracy books. They look great but I dont have amazon.

[Adrift]

I do not like the concept of tattoos, I did not like them when I was an unbeliever. Why in the world would anyone want a tattoo? My negative view is unrelated to my faith. I feel the same about pierced ears, so I am a little weird I guess.

Old fashioned, but not weird. When I was growing up, the only people I knew who got tattoos were military, bikers, and prisoners. There was something bad and dangerous about them that I found attractive. But as we all know, they became mainstream in the 90s (along with piercings), and have gotten so popular that there's nothing dangerous about them anymore. They're almost trendy at this point, and which is another reason why I'm not interested in getting one. But I can see plenty of reasons why people do want them. A good tattoo can have meaningful significance, and can be a legitimate piece of art work.

I mean, I think something like this:



or this:



are graphically impressive.

I personally have always wanted the four Gospel authors tattooed on my upper arms based on the design of the French Ebbo Gospels done in their modern sort of hyperkinetic style that seems more like something that came out of the expressionistic period than from 9th century when they were produced.




Alas, the irony of getting Jewish writers tattooed on me was too silly to bear, and along with the fact that tattoos are now so fashionable, I thought better of it.