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Complex specified information

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  • Complex specified information

    From here:

    "Simply put, complex specified information is information that is both complex and specified, ..."

    They then go on to calculate the odds of a working genome that codes for 124 proteins occurring by chance, and comparing this with the number of possible trials.
    As usual, minor details such as variation in protein sequence and redundancy in the genetic code are ignored, as is the idea that the first life was much simpler than the simplest extant life, and probably didn't use DNA at all. They also make the "extremely generous assumption" of one new genetic sequence per nanosecond per planet, completely ignoring the possibility that genome production might happen in parallel rather than in sequence, and hence using a genome trial rate that is equivalent to that found in, say, the human population of San Jose.

    Naturally their conclusion is that "information in DNA is so complex and specified that even making the most reasonable assumptions, it is impossible for the information in DNA to come about by chance.", which, since every human born has a slightly different genome, leaves me wondering exactly who is designing the new genomes of all the babies being born right now.
    Last edited by Roy; 09-08-2016, 11:24 AM.
    Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

    MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
    MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

    seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

  • #2
    Did Jorge write that?

    But to answer your question, A baby's DNA isn't coming about by chance.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Sparko View Post
      Did Jorge write that?
      No, Chris Ashcraft.
      But to answer your question, A baby's DNA isn't coming about by chance.
      So their ~100 new mutations are not random?
      Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

      MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
      MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

      seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Roy View Post
        No, Chris Ashcraft.So their ~100 new mutations are not random?
        The DNA didn't come completely at random. It started with two existing DNA strands combining according to standard rules. So the statement "information in DNA is so complex and specified that even making the most reasonable assumptions, it is impossible for the information in DNA to come about by chance." really has no bearing on the odds of any particular baby's unique DNA combination. It was talking about DNA coming together in the first place from chance chemical combinations in abiogenesis. At least that is how it reads to me.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Roy View Post
          From here:

          "Simply put, complex specified information is information that is both complex and specified, ..."

          They then go on to calculate the odds of a working genome that codes for 124 proteins occurring by chance, and comparing this with the number of possible trials.
          As usual, minor details such as variation in protein sequence and redundancy in the genetic code are ignored, as is the idea that the first life was much simpler than the simplest extant life, and probably didn't use DNA at all. They also make the "extremely generous assumption" of one new genetic sequence per nanosecond per planet, completely ignoring the possibility that genome production might happen in parallel rather than in sequence, and hence using a genome trial rate that is equivalent to that found in, say, the human population of San Jose.

          Naturally their conclusion is that "information in DNA is so complex and specified that even making the most reasonable assumptions, it is impossible for the information in DNA to come about by chance.", which, since every human born has a slightly different genome, leaves me wondering exactly who is designing the new genomes of all the babies being born right now.
          Finger nails on the blackboard whenever I hear the word 'chance' or 'random' as constraints on the ability of nature to develop complexity of DNA naturally. The actual relationships in nature is fractal within the constraints natural chemical reactions. This greatly narrows the possible combinations that form the primitive forms that later evolve complexity. Nature does not manufacture watches nor 747s.
          Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
          Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
          But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

          go with the flow the river knows . . .

          Frank

          I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Sparko View Post
            The DNA didn't come completely at random. It started with two existing DNA strands combining according to standard rules. So the statement "information in DNA is so complex and specified that even making the most reasonable assumptions, it is impossible for the information in DNA to come about by chance." really has no bearing on the odds of any particular baby's unique DNA combination. It was talking about DNA coming together in the first place from chance chemical combinations in abiogenesis. At least that is how it reads to me.
            They're talking about genetic material coming together in the first place from chance chemical combinations, but using the characteristics of modern DNA (that has been evolving for a very long time) rather than the characteristics of the 'genetic' material of the first replicators. They're also fudging their calculations.

            They might as well argue that powered flight must have been provided by divine intervention because the Wright brothers didn't have the ability to build a space shuttle in 3 days.
            Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

            MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
            MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

            seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Roy View Post
              From here:

              "Simply put, complex specified information is information that is both complex and specified, ..."

              They then go on to calculate the odds of a working genome that codes for 124 proteins occurring by chance, and comparing this with the number of possible trials.
              As usual, minor details such as variation in protein sequence and redundancy in the genetic code are ignored, as is the idea that the first life was much simpler than the simplest extant life, and probably didn't use DNA at all. They also make the "extremely generous assumption" of one new genetic sequence per nanosecond per planet, completely ignoring the possibility that genome production might happen in parallel rather than in sequence, and hence using a genome trial rate that is equivalent to that found in, say, the human population of San Jose.

              Naturally their conclusion is that "information in DNA is so complex and specified that even making the most reasonable assumptions, it is impossible for the information in DNA to come about by chance.", which, since every human born has a slightly different genome, leaves me wondering exactly who is designing the new genomes of all the babies being born right now.
              Ugh -there are so many wrong assumptions in that little tome.

              Jim

              ETA: for some reason in Jim's mind creationwiki and trueorigins are synonyms ...
              My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

              If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

              This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Roy View Post
                They also make the "extremely generous assumption" of one new genetic sequence per nanosecond per planet, completely ignoring the possibility that genome production might happen in parallel rather than in sequence, and hence using a genome trial rate that is equivalent to that found in, say, the human population of San Jose.
                In retrospect this may be a little unfair, since I was including both somatic and non-somatic cell division. However, it can be remedied by using the genome trial rate of the San Jose denizens' gut bacteria instead.
                Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

                MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
                MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

                seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

                Comment

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