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Interpretation the Trinity is polytheistic

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  • Originally posted by DesertBerean View Post
    You are deliberately taking 1 Cor 15 out of context. We cannot have a honest discussion.
    Paul says in 1 Corinthians 15:3 that "Christ died for our sins" and 1 timothy 6:16 says "He is the only one who cannot die", therefore, JESUS CANNOT BE GOD.

    https://biblehub.com/gwt/1_timothy/6.htm

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Same Hakeem View Post
      Paul says in 1 Corinthians 15:3 that "Christ died for our sins" and 1 timothy 6:16 says "He is the only one who cannot die", therefore, JESUS CANNOT BE GOD.

      https://biblehub.com/gwt/1_timothy/6.htm

      Jesus could die on the cross because He is both human and divine. But it was His human nature that experienced physical death, not His divine nature.

      Scripture Verse: 1 Peter 3:18 ESV


      "18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit"

      © Copyright Original Source



      In the flesh is here speaking of Jesus' human nature. In short, Jesus can die and still be God because of His dual nature.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Chrawnus View Post
        Jesus could die on the cross because He is both human and divine. But it was His human nature that experienced physical death, not His divine nature.

        Scripture Verse: 1 Peter 3:18 ESV


        "18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit"

        © Copyright Original Source



        In the flesh is here speaking of Jesus' human nature. In short, Jesus can die and still be God because of His dual nature.
        But what is meant there by "made alive in the spirit?" Don't christians believe that all humans have a dual nature, and are made alive "in the spirit?"

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Chrawnus View Post
          Jesus could die on the cross because He is both human and divine. But it was His human nature that experienced physical death, not His divine nature.

          Scripture Verse: 1 Peter 3:18 ESV


          "18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit"

          © Copyright Original Source



          In the flesh is here speaking of Jesus' human nature. In short, Jesus can die and still be God because of His dual nature.
          Jesus is believed to be fully God and fully man AT THE SAME TIME; God in flesh and therefore, to say Jesus the God in flesh died on the cross means an impossibility because God cannot die.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by JimL View Post
            But what is meant there by "made alive in the spirit?" Don't christians believe that all humans have a dual nature, and are made alive "in the spirit?"
            Made alive in the spirit refers to His resurrection.
            Last edited by JonathanL; 04-03-2020, 01:10 PM.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Same Hakeem View Post
              Jesus is believed to be fully God and fully man AT THE SAME TIME; God in flesh and therefore, to say Jesus the God in flesh died on the cross means an impossibility because God cannot die.
              Yes, Jesus, Who is God, died on the cross. But His Divine nature did not die, only His human nature. Or more precisely, His spirit separated from His physical, human body.
              Last edited by JonathanL; 04-03-2020, 01:13 PM.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Chrawnus View Post
                Made alive in the spirit refers to His resurrection.
                Obviously, but don't christians believe the same concerning humans, i.e. the dual nature of body and spirit?

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Chrawnus View Post
                  Yes, Jesus, Who is God, died on the cross. But His Divine nature did not die, only His human nature. Or more precisely, His spirit separated from His physical, human body.
                  If Jesus the man died, then no one is saved since "the LORD commanded "Parents are not to be put to death for their children, nor children put to death for their parents; each will die for their own sin" in 2 Kings 14:6.

                  If Jesus were God and died, then this is a contradiction to 1 Timothy 6:16 "God alone possesses immortality"

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Same Hakeem View Post
                    If Jesus the man died, then no one is saved since "the LORD commanded "Parents are not to be put to death for their children, nor children put to death for their parents; each will die for their own sin" in 2 Kings 14:6.

                    If Jesus were God and died, then this is a contradiction to 1 Timothy 6:16 "God alone possesses immortality"
                    2 Kings 14:16 forbids us created humans to punish someone for someone else's sin, it says absolutely nothing about God the Son willingly taking on the punishment for humanity upon Himself. If God wants to forbid us from punishing people (or taking on the punishment) for someone else's sins/crimes, while still doing the aforementioned himself, then that's His prerogative.

                    And no, it's not a contradiction to 1 Tim 6:16 that Jesus, who is God, died, because only his human nature died, not his divine nature.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Chrawnus View Post
                      Yes, Jesus, Who is God, died on the cross. But His Divine nature did not die, only His human nature. Or more precisely, His spirit separated from His physical, human body.
                      So...Jesus the God did not die/Jesus the human died?...is this correct? If so, why the necessity for incarnation?...if human sacrifice alone is enough for atonement/forgiveness of sin?
                      ...and if human sacrifice is enough---why Jesus?---any human would do?
                      ....and if any human sacrifice is fine ----then why wait around for some random moment in time to have a human sacrifice?---why not do it when Adam sinned?

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by siam View Post
                        So...Jesus the God did not die/Jesus the human died?...is this correct? If so, why the necessity for incarnation?...if human sacrifice alone is enough for atonement/forgiveness of sin?
                        ...and if human sacrifice is enough---why Jesus?---any human would do?
                        ....and if any human sacrifice is fine ----then why wait around for some random moment in time to have a human sacrifice?---why not do it when Adam sinned?
                        There is no distinction between Jesus the God and Jesus the human, it's not like they're two different persons. Or rather, there is no Jesus the human and Jesus the God, there is one Jesus, who is both God and human. The person Jesus, who is God in the flesh, died on the cross, but He died a physical, human death. Because Jesus is God it's proper to say that God (the Son) died on the cross, as long as it's not misunderstood to mean that Jesus' divine nature ceased to function, or existing or something similar. What it means is that Jesus' spirit separated from His physical body.

                        And it does matter that it was Jesus specifically that died, because He's the only sinless God-man that has ever lived. A sinful human being cannot die for the sins of humanity. God the Son had to become human because He had to become like us to bear our sins, He had to be sinless because an imperfect sacrifice can not cover for sin, and He had to be God because a single human, even if sinless, wouldn't be enough to cover for the sins of humanity. A sinless God-man however, is another story.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Chrawnus View Post
                          There is no distinction between Jesus the God and Jesus the human, it's not like they're two different persons. Or rather, there is no Jesus the human and Jesus the God, there is one Jesus, who is both God and human. The person Jesus, who is God in the flesh, died on the cross, but He died a physical, human death. Because Jesus is God it's proper to say that God (the Son) died on the cross, as long as it's not misunderstood to mean that Jesus' divine nature ceased to function, or existing or something similar. What it means is that Jesus' spirit separated from His physical body.

                          And it does matter that it was Jesus specifically that died, because He's the only sinless God-man that has ever lived. A sinful human being cannot die for the sins of humanity. God the Son had to become human because He had to become like us to bear our sins, He had to be sinless because an imperfect sacrifice can not cover for sin, and He had to be God because a single human, even if sinless, wouldn't be enough to cover for the sins of humanity. A sinless God-man however, is another story.
                          How does the body die if the spirit thereof continues to live? According to Christians, isn't it the spirit that gives life to the body?

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by DesertBerean View Post
                            That's not what the evidence says.
                            There is no evidence.
                            Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                            Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                            But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                            go with the flow the river knows . . .

                            Frank

                            I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Chrawnus View Post
                              2 Kings 14:16 forbids us created humans to punish someone for someone else's sin, it says absolutely nothing about God the Son willingly taking on the punishment for humanity upon Himself. If God wants to forbid us from punishing people (or taking on the punishment) for someone else's sins/crimes, while still doing the aforementioned himself, then that's His prerogative.

                              And no, it's not a contradiction to 1 Tim 6:16 that Jesus, who is God, died, because only his human nature died, not his divine nature.
                              Let me help you please.

                              Ezk. 18:4 and 20 say "The one that sins shall die", so if Jesus the man died, no one is saved because "it is only the one that sins shall die" (not the sinless).

                              Man according to the Bible in Hebrews 9:27 dies. Hebrews 9:27 says "it is appointed for man to die once" but God CANNOT die according to 1 Timothy 6:16 "God alone possesses immortality"

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Chrawnus View Post
                                There is no distinction between Jesus the God and Jesus the human, it's not like they're two different persons. Or rather, there is no Jesus the human and Jesus the God, there is one Jesus, who is both God and human. The person Jesus, who is God in the flesh, died on the cross, but He died a physical, human death. Because Jesus is God it's proper to say that God (the Son) died on the cross, as long as it's not misunderstood to mean that Jesus' divine nature ceased to function, or existing or something similar. What it means is that Jesus' spirit separated from His physical body.

                                And it does matter that it was Jesus specifically that died, because He's the only sinless God-man that has ever lived. A sinful human being cannot die for the sins of humanity. God the Son had to become human because He had to become like us to bear our sins, He had to be sinless because an imperfect sacrifice can not cover for sin, and He had to be God because a single human, even if sinless, wouldn't be enough to cover for the sins of humanity. A sinless God-man however, is another story.
                                Claiming "There is no distinction between Jesus the God and Jesus the human" is baseless because Jesus disapproved trinity over and over in the Bible as Jesus, for instance, said "My Father is greater than all" in John 10:29. All means all without any exception allowed here.

                                Claiming "Because Jesus is God it's proper to say that God (the Son) died on the cross" is also contradiction to 1 Timothy 6:16 that says "God ALONE possesses immortality"; therefore, if Jesus died, Jesus CANNOT BE God biblically and logically.

                                Saying "What it means is that Jesus' spirit separated from His physical body" proves Jesus the man died because "the body without the spirit is dead" in James 2:27 and hence Jesus was neither God or God man because God cannot die.
                                Last edited by Same Hakeem; 04-04-2020, 02:04 PM.

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