Maybe Time for a Declaration of Independence

[Cow Poke]

I am a member (by virtue of being the pastor of a local church) of a "Ministerial Alliance" of Churches in our County (and area). The Ministerial Alliance is comprised of "Christian" Churches, the definition of which is rather loose, and includes most "Christian" denominations. Our purpose is to work together in the community on matters where we agree, and cooperate on prayer events, Thanksgiving Community Service, and stuff like that.

I've felt uncomfortable, at times, knowing that some of the Pastors in that group are more into the "social gospel" or even "liberation theology", or have views - theological or political - with which I am at odds. I kept convincing myself I could overlook those things "for the greater good" of the community.

I think - no, I know - I have reached a point where I can no longer be part of that group.

Last year, several of the Churches got involved in the immigration issue, where our County Commissioners had declined to accept a bunch of refugees, and gave good reasons why. Several of the Churches, however, unbeknownst to me and a number of the other Pastors, invited those County Commissioners to our monthly meeting to "have an open dialogue", but it turned into a 'bashing' session, all but calling them UNCHRISTIAN for refusing to allow the refugee camp. One of the female commissioners was in tears. The Pastor of her Church was one of the ones doing the "dressing down".

Lately, it seems like the battle lines are being drawn. One of the Churches has a homosexual youth minister, who is very vocal about "same sex issues". The Church is fine with that, as are a number of other Churches.

Several of these Churches are putting on a symposium where they are inviting the public to come "learn how Islam and Christianity have the same goals, and we need to learn to cooperate". I can't agree with that in any sense. The problem is that they tend to imply, or even declare, "we (the ministerial alliance) speak for the local Churches". They don't.

Several of our Churches are openly embracing the gender identity issue, and painting anybody who disagrees as "hateful" or "judgmental" or "unloving" (the same way some of our Tweb liberals do).

Several of the Pastors met with me yesterday morning for prayer about some other issues - we meet occasionally just to touch base, encourage one another, fellowship, and go to lunch. This issue was heavily on my mind, but I hadn't discussed it with anybody outside my own Church.

One of the other Pastors began expressing his concern that the Ministerial Alliance seemed to be rapidly approaching apostasy. He gave several of the examples I mentioned here, along with some other issues of which he was aware, including several of the member churches discussing their denominations new guidelines on how to marry same sex couples.

Before long, we were all in agreement that we needed to "come out from among them and be separate". That, of course, will have consequences, as I'm sure we'll be cast as "the hateful" or "narrow minded" churches and pastors. We're prepared for that.

BEFORE ANYTHING ELSE happens, I'm going to talk to the President of the Ministerial Alliance, who happens to be a good friend. I suspect he's more on the "social gospel" spectrum, but I don't know where he is on the same sex issue, the "Islam is our friend" issue, and some of the other issues that exist.

There is a SLIM possibility that these liberal churches are a minority, and maybe the Ministerial Association needs to just clarify "that's not us". I seriously doubt that. I think there are churches that have pretty well gone apostate, and maybe the majority of other churches are just complacent about that.

Your prayers are sought, cause this could turn out to be quite a battle.

CIVIL discussion is invited.

[mossrose]

Yes. Time to leave. There can be no compromise with the world. And liberal churches, and I hesitate to call them Christian, for the most part, are all about compromising the gospel to fit in with the culture.

There are my 2 layperson cents.

[Teallaura]

Before you leave, why'd you join in the first place? Not being snide - but I think you should consider what brought you into the group and what good it has done/is doing before writing it off.
That's not a vote either way - I just didn't see a lot of balance in the OP and you need to see both sides as clearly as possible.

[Cow Poke]

Before you leave, why'd you join in the first place? Not being snide - but I think you should consider what brought you into the group and what good it has done/is doing before writing it off.
That's not a vote either way - I just didn't see a lot of balance in the OP and you need to see both sides as clearly as possible.

No, good question. I was pastoring from 60 miles away, and had limited time to spend in the city where I was a Pastor. (Since then, of course, I've moved to a NEIGHBORHOOD in the city)

I wanted to be involved in the community, to get to know people, to get a "feel" for what the spiritual community was. That was four years ago. Since then, things have REALLY escalated with the same sex marriage, gender identity, etc.

I have always been involved in local "ministeriums" (ministeria?) where I lived, and never experienced anything like this at all. I think a couple of the bigger churches are trying to set the agenda for everybody else, and presuming to speak for everybody else.

[mossrose]

There is a ministerial in our town, and all the pastors we've had have been a part of it. There is some good done, for example, each pastor/priest/ what have you took a turn on Sunday nights doing a service at the local extended care facility, and so on.

I could never figure out, however, how evangelical protestants and Catholics and Anglicans and lately Muslim leaders could all be part of the same organization based on "faith". There is no ecumenism possible with some of these, and I think that in the end the differences outweigh the good.

A pastor like CP can do just as much or more good with his own congregation without compromising the truth of the gospel for the sake of ecumenism, which can't possibly work.

[Cow Poke]

There is a ministerial in our town, and all the pastors we've had have been a part of it. There is some good done, for example, each pastor/priest/ what have you took a turn on Sunday nights doing a service at the local extended care facility, and so on.

I could never figure out, however, how evangelical protestants and Catholics and Anglicans and lately Muslim leaders could all be part of the same organization based on "faith". There is no ecumenism possible with some of these, and I think that in the end the differences outweigh the good.

A pastor like CP can do just as much or more good with his own congregation without compromising the truth of the gospel for the sake of ecumenism, which can't possibly work.

Yeah, there used to be a purposeful focus on "the things we have in common". Lately, there seems to be a greater focus on "the things some of us more pious members support, and you hateful bigots oppose". (not that bad, but it seems to be getting there pretty quickly)

As to your example of the local nursing homes and extended care facilities -- we have a total of 6 in our town, and we all used to take turns doing two of the six on our assigned Sunday. That's one of the things we noticed - it's only the evangelical churches that continue to sign up for these services, the liberal churches no longer participate.

[mossrose]

As to your example of the local nursing homes and extended care facilities -- we have a total of 6 in our town, and we all used to take turns doing two of the six on our assigned Sunday. That's one of the things we noticed - it's only the evangelical churches that continue to sign up for these services, the liberal churches no longer participate.

I believe it was coming to that here, as well.

[Faber]

I was in a church several decades ago, a conservative independent Baptist church. our pastors had no connections with the local ministerial association. This is in the east coast, which is probably worse than Texas and the Bible belt states. But there was a loose affiliation with other Baptist churches in the area. Would that be a possibility in your case?

[Cow Poke]

I was in a church several decades ago, a conservative independent Baptist church. our pastors had no connections with the local ministerial association. This is in the east coast, which is probably worse than Texas and the Bible belt states. But there was a loose affiliation with other Baptist churches in the area. Would that be a possibility in your case?

So far, we have about 9 Baptist and Bible Churches who are interested in an "evangelical" fellowship. The only Independent Baptist Church I know of in our area is a KJOnliest Church.

[Cerebrum123]

Definitely get out of there. There is way too much wrong stuff going on there. One that caught my eye was the Islam part. Islam and Christianity do NOT have the "same goals". Anybody who can say that with a straight face while being Christian is either ignorant of Islam, or has effectively accepted Dhimmi status, and is pushing forward with Islamic propaganda.

[Sparko]

I think you have found out that they have taken "inclusiveness" too far. the group needs some minimum standards and moral stances. otherwise it becomes useless. a watered down gospel basically.

[Cow Poke]

I think you have found out that they have taken "inclusiveness" too far. the group needs some minimum standards and moral stances. otherwise it becomes useless. a watered down gospel basically.

I spoke briefly about this in our Morning Service, and said we would be having some discussions, like in our Leadership Team meeting, and our Wednesday night group. After Church, I got quite a bit of positive feedback - we need to take a stand.

[KingsGambit]

It sounds based on what you have shared that the behavior from some of these other churches has been divisive and unloving, and divisiveness within the church is probably the sin that the New Testament spends the most time condemning.

[Cow Poke]

It sounds based on what you have shared that the behavior from some of these other churches has been divisive and unloving, and divisiveness within the church is probably the sin that the New Testament spends the most time condemning.

It's actually one of 5 reasons given for "churching" somebody. (I always wondered why they called it that, when it's actually "dechurching" )

And, yes, it almost seems like 4 churches in particular are trying to prove how loving and forgiving they are by being more "inclusive".

[mossrose]

It's actually one of 5 reasons given for "churching" somebody. (I always wondered why they called it that, when it's actually "dechurching" )

And, yes, it almost seems like 4 churches in particular are trying to prove how loving and forgiving they are by being more "inclusive".

Yup. If you leave the group, CP, be prepared to have your church called divisive and unloving.