Maybe Time for a Declaration of Independence

[Cow Poke]

Today is the first Ministerium meeting I will miss. But I won't miss it at all. My Lutheran Pastor colleague, however, is seriously considering attending to suggest that they dialogue about what their purpose is.

Back in July 2014, following the 'spanking' of the County Commissioners, I had insisted that the 'mission' of the Ministerium was to work together on the things where we are in agreement, and avoid the areas that would cause conflict. It was painfully obvious that the "big blowup" was NOT consistent with the mission of the Ministerium. The President-for-life told me that anybody was welcome to bring anything to the group for discussion, and I expressed my concern over that, as well. It's his job, in my opinion, to be gatekeeper, and to assure that we stay true to our mission.

That, obviously, isn't going to happen. As they say on Shark Tank, "for those reasons, I'm out".

It will be interesting to see if my Lutheran Pastor friend attends the meeting, and to see whether or not he gets anywhere. But I know about 10 pastors who won't be there, including me.

[Cow Poke]

Update.....

The Lutheran Pastor of the congregation that shares our building talked to the President of the Ministerial Association yesterday. He, the Pastor, expressed his concerns, mainly over the most recent event - the "let's all hold hands with the Imans' meeting - and encouraged the president of the ministerium to take a stand.

Today at 10 AM, I was meeting with a number of the conservative pastors to continue charting our course.

At 9:40 AM, I got a call from the president of the ministerium advising me that he had thought real hard and prayed a lot about my meeting with him a few weeks ago, and would like for me and my conservative pastor friends to come to the October meeting to discuss this whole mess. He said he would clear the agenda, and the only topic would be the direction of the ministerium, and the fact that there appeared to be an unavoidable 'divorce' on the horizon. I've known this president for about 5 years, and never heard him so humble and sincere - he's a very colorful individual who is always joking and laughing.

At our 10 AM meeting, I shared my phone conversation (the prez asked me to do so) and suggested we agree to meet to see if there was any way to salvage the situation. I think the chance of salvaging is about 2%, but, in my mind, we can at least say we tried. The rest of the pastors were open to that, so I suggested we have a meeting of us conservative pastors with the prez on the Monday PRIOR to the Thursday meeting (4th thursdays of the month) to go over our concerns, and see if it's even plausible that a change in direction can be accomplished.

I called the prez, and he agreed. He had ALSO offered (in this morning's phone call) to step down and let somebody else take over the leadership. It might be, however, if he really is as open to change as he seems to be, that it would be logical for him to stay on board at least through this "salvage attempt".

In a separate post, I'll cover the ISLAM lovefest that some of the local churches put on.

[Cow Poke]

So, there was, this past Sunday, the big meeting at the big Lutheran Church where the Imams were invited to come and have an "open discussion" about Islam. I was out of state, but have had several folks who were there fill me in.

The "Christian" pastors were stressing the need to "love one another, as Jesus loved us", and to get along. One of the main 'apologists' for the "Christians" was a minister who got his MDiv from Harvard, and his Masters from a very liberal seminary (I forget which one).

Long story short, the "Christian" 'apologist' explained that God had given multiple paths to Himself, and that we have a "trilogy of Abrahamic theology", including Judaism, Christianity and Islam.

It'd take too long to go through the various points, but one of the issues was that 98% of all Muslims are peaceful, and just want to get along, and it's only a handful who have 'improperly translated' the Quran and are Jihadists, and that "Jihad" is simply a word that means "struggle", and they're just "struggling to keep their faith alive".

So, as it turns out, the "Christian apologist" was doing more to defend Islam than the Imam was!

Then the "Q&A". Those participants who had REGISTERED AHEAD OF TIME were given a piece of paper on which they could write their questions.
At the end of the "panel discussion", those papers were gathered up, and "sorted" - supposedly 'categorizing them' for a better flow of discussion. Some of the people I know who attended are sure that a number of the questions were discarded, and one person who had turned in a question is sure that her question was one of the ones read out loud, but it was "toned down" as it was put to the Imam.

What's REALLY sad is that in all of this absolutely heretical train wreck, there were a lot of audience participants who were nodding in agreement with some of the outrageously false "Christian" statements. Such as, "God has provided multiple paths" to Himself.

That's enough for now.

[mossrose]

Long story short, the "Christian" 'apologist' explained that God had given multiple paths to Himself, and that we have a "trilogy of Abrahamic theology", including Judaism, Christianity and Islam.

There it is, right there. Wonder if that "Christian" apologist is a fan of Osteen and his ilk.

Wipe your feet, brother.


(Go to the meeting first. THEN wipe your feet!)

[Cow Poke]

There it is, right there. Wonder if that "Christian" apologist is a fan of Osteen and his ilk.

Wipe your feet, brother.


(Go to the meeting first. THEN wipe your feet!)

Here's what I hope to accomplish at the meeting, IF I go....

A) There's a SLIM possibility (next to zero) that the group as a whole will agree that the 4 pastors who are causing all the fuss need to cease and desist, and they'll get mad and leave.
2) More likely (but still a slim possibility) a majority of those present will agree that we need to focus on ministry and stop the politics and the apostasy.

OK, as I type that, I'm shaking my head -- ain't gonna happen.

SO.... another possibility is that a number of the pastors will see that the ministerium has moved FAR LEFT, and decide they need to be part of our group instead.

I think, though, that I need to do the Matt 18:15-17 thing, and I'm working through...

A) go "one on one" (I talked to the prez)
2) take two or three with you (our meeting on the monday prior to our next meeting)
iii) discuss the matter before the assembly

At the meeting before the meeting, I think we'll have a better idea if we even want to try to appeal to the larger body.

[Cerebrum123]

So, there was, this past Sunday, the big meeting at the big Lutheran Church where the Imams were invited to come and have an "open discussion" about Islam. I was out of state, but have had several folks who were there fill me in.

The "Christian" pastors were stressing the need to "love one another, as Jesus loved us", and to get along. One of the main 'apologists' for the "Christians" was a minister who got his MDiv from Harvard, and his Masters from a very liberal seminary (I forget which one).

Long story short, the "Christian" 'apologist' explained that God had given multiple paths to Himself, and that we have a "trilogy of Abrahamic theology", including Judaism, Christianity and Islam.

It'd take too long to go through the various points, but one of the issues was that 98% of all Muslims are peaceful, and just want to get along, and it's only a handful who have 'improperly translated' the Quran and are Jihadists, and that "Jihad" is simply a word that means "struggle", and they're just "struggling to keep their faith alive".

So, as it turns out, the "Christian apologist" was doing more to defend Islam than the Imam was!

Then the "Q&A". Those participants who had REGISTERED AHEAD OF TIME were given a piece of paper on which they could write their questions.
At the end of the "panel discussion", those papers were gathered up, and "sorted" - supposedly 'categorizing them' for a better flow of discussion. Some of the people I know who attended are sure that a number of the questions were discarded, and one person who had turned in a question is sure that her question was one of the ones read out loud, but it was "toned down" as it was put to the Imam.

What's REALLY sad is that in all of this absolutely heretical train wreck, there were a lot of audience participants who were nodding in agreement with some of the outrageously false "Christian" statements. Such as, "God has provided multiple paths" to Himself.

That's enough for now.

The underlined is about as accurate as saying that Space Balls is a part of the Star Wars trilogy.

Of course, the Allah of the Koran is the "greatest of deceivers", and I think that's playing out in the world at large.

[mossrose]

Yeah, they throw Jesus' declaration of being THE Way, THE Truth and THE Life, and no man comes to the Father but through Him right out the window and trample it into the flower bed.

[Cow Poke]

Yeah, they throw Jesus' declaration of being THE Way, THE Truth and THE Life, and no man comes to the Father but through Him right out the window and trample it into the flower bed.

EGGzackly. (But I was thinking more like toilet than flower bed)

[TheWall]

My heresy o meter is going nuts. They actually endorsed polytheism.

[Cow Poke]

Yeah, they throw Jesus' declaration of being THE Way, THE Truth and THE Life, and no man comes to the Father but through Him right out the window and trample it into the flower bed.

By the way, that issue was 'addressed'.... when somebody pointed "THE way" statement, the "Christian apologist" explained, "there IS only ONE WAY.... for CHRISTIANS".

he said that

[TheWall]

Moral relativism as well.

[mossrose]

By the way, that issue was 'addressed'.... when somebody pointed "THE way" statement, the "Christian apologist" explained, "there IS only ONE WAY.... for CHRISTIANS".

he said that

I am gagging over that.........

[Cow Poke]

I am gagging over that.........

Yes, I'm told there were audible groans and gasps in the audience.

[Sparko]

By the way, that issue was 'addressed'.... when somebody pointed "THE way" statement, the "Christian apologist" explained, "there IS only ONE WAY.... for CHRISTIANS".

he said that

That's when they should have gotten up and walked out. ...after calling the guy out for heresy.

[Cow Poke]

So, this morning, we meet at 10 AM with the current president of the Ministerial Alliance to see if there's any hope of salvaging the Alliance.
Personally, I don't see it happening, but he has offered to resign, and wants this month's meeting to be strictly about discussing the elephant in the room.

The normal monthly meeting would be this Thursday at Noon, so we'll see how today's talk goes.