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Why is apologetics almost unknown?

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  • #16
    See I have never been to church but I would organize it like this.
    Sunday worship proceeded by a nice lunch and a lecture on some apologetic subject followed by a bible study on the dats sermon.
    sigpic

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
      To me, 'apologetics' without the Holy Spirit is just "arguing".
      True if you think of apologetics only as outreach.
      Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

      Comment


      • #18
        Long answer or short answer?

        Long:
        Many (if not most) people view religion as a matter of opinion, "you can believe whatever you want, it's to be taken on faith anyway." They don't believe that Christianity has rational defenses and a very strong intellectual tradition. Introducing apologetics implies that 1. Religious claims are truth claims and 2. That means somebody is wrong. One of the bigger issues with American Protestantism (and I say this as a biased Catholic, so beat up on me if you want) is that it has often devolved into "I'm okay, you're okay," or what I've seen described as "moralistic, therapeutic deism." The latter is well illustrated by people like Joel Osteen, who promise all sorts of great things if you follow Jesus.

        Moreover, the idea that religious beliefs are not simply a matter of personal preference implies that there could be compelling intellectual (rather than emotional) reasons to reject certain beliefs. For many Christians, that's a scary thought, as they think that most doubts are emotional. The Catholic ministry at my university is especially bad about this: whenever one expresses doubts, he's prayed for or told to read the Bible. That doesn't solve the issue, in many cases, it makes it worse! American Christianity in general has a certain anti-intellectual strain that I imagine is part of the American psyche more generally...

        Short: People are lazy and can't be bothered to figure out what they believe nor why they believe it.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by TheWall View Post
          Intruiging answers.
          I find it interesting because generally I like learning. I want to learn as much about my faith as I can.
          I do not believe apologetics is fading nor not common, but the problem with apologetics in recent history, and much of the past, is the lack of meaningful objective knowledge of the opposition, and a balanced argument. Only wanting to learn as much about your your own faith as much as you can puts your arguments at a disadvantage.
          Last edited by shunyadragon; 09-15-2016, 10:12 AM.
          Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
          Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
          But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

          go with the flow the river knows . . .

          Frank

          I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by TheWall View Post
            I don't get it. Thousands of years worth of evidence and arguements and I didnt know about any of even the most basic stuff untill relatively recently.
            Why is that? Why is this information not thrusted into the public eye?
            My question is less about the public eye and more about why it isn't more taught in churches. There's so many people who deconvert because they hear some popular atheistic arguments and then just accept them without knowing any counterarguments exist. I can understand not wanting to overwhelm people with the really complicated stuff but many churches largely seem lacking in providing even the basics to people who attend.

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            • #21
              The excitement of knowing one is saved and now possessing eternal life through faith in Christ - causing one to want tell others. Then the need to understand more of what one has come to believe. Encountering those who simply deny it out of hand. The Bible, the Holy Scriture being the basis of the faith. One finds oneself doing apologtices not even know that is what it is called.
              . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

              . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

              Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Spartacus View Post
                Oh, to be young again...

                I stumbled into apologetics as a teenager. I've also come across a number of other people who discovered apologetics at around the same age and were similarly drawn into it. I don't know if I would have been intellectually ready for it prior to then, so even if I'd heard the word used prior to that, I wouldn't have grasped its significance, and the thing itself would still have struck me as surprising and compelling and asked "why in the world don't we talk about this more???"

                ... but almost ten years later, I don't see it as quite as wonderful as I thought at first. For many people, apologetics is just preaching to the choir. I'm glad I learned about it, and I wouldn't have gotten into the study of theology, or, if I would have, not as readily or profitably, without apologetics. However, the arguments are of limited utility in the end.

                I think one of the key realizations for me was the different roles of the will and the intellect in a person's faith or lack thereof. Apologetics can clear away intellectual obstacles to faith, but I usually think of faith as a matter of the will, not the intellect. And apologetics doesn't do much for people who are in emotional crises of faith, which are, by my impressions at least, more common. Apologetics is fine to keep in your back pocket, and it's good for you to learn about and participate in these arguments while they hold your interest, but the arguments themselves aren't really all that useful.
                I see it as the intellect points us where to go and the will drives us toward it. I really found myself asking why do I even believe Christianity besides that I was trained to do so by people, I found having a cursery exposure to the arguments and the logic behind our faith and doctrine helpful in satisfying that certain key aspects of it are not without strong merit, more so than other alternatives. It gives the will strength when it is reassured that it is not exercised simply to the irrational and meritless over that which merit.
                I am become death...

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Ana Dragule View Post
                  I see it as the intellect points us where to go and the will drives us toward it. I really found myself asking why do I even believe Christianity besides that I was trained to do so by people, I found having a cursery exposure to the arguments and the logic behind our faith and doctrine helpful in satisfying that certain key aspects of it are not without strong merit, more so than other alternatives. It gives the will strength when it is reassured that it is not exercised simply to the irrational and meritless over that which merit.
                  Interesting, but given the same arguments and logic, not cursory, but extensive contemplation, research, prayer and dialogues with many different believers of different faiths, I found the arguments and logic severely wanting, and and heavy in begging the question. The strongest motivation for belief is a 'sense of belonging,' of either there inherited belief or a search to find something to belong to.
                  Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                  Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                  But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                  go with the flow the river knows . . .

                  Frank

                  I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                    Interesting, but given the same arguments and logic, not cursory, but extensive contemplation, research, prayer and dialogues with many different believers of different faiths, I found the arguments and logic severely wanting, and and heavy in begging the question. The strongest motivation for belief is a 'sense of belonging,' of either there inherited belief or a search to find something to belong to.
                    To an extent I agree, but our shared understanding of things contributes to our sense of belonging. In that sense, I think that the logical application of apologetics in personal faith develops our faith and even will to participate-kind of like a spiral, a circular effect but coming to a clearer point of where it's center is for that person.
                    Last edited by Ana Dragule; 11-08-2016, 02:01 AM.
                    I am become death...

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by TheWall View Post
                      I don't get it. Thousands of years worth of evidence and arguements and I didnt know about any of even the most basic stuff untill relatively recently.
                      Why is that? Why is this information not thrusted into the public eye?
                      Have you considered what kind of guys are running the school systems, most places over the world?
                      http://notontimsblogroundhere.blogspot.fr/p/apologetics-section.html

                      Thanks, Sparko, for telling how I add the link here!

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Scrawly View Post
                        I think it has to do with the fact that most people are too busy living their lives, or simply don't care to venture into these cerebral areas of study. They might view it as a fruitless endeavor that isn't going to prove anything significant one way or another and, therefore, opt instead to spend their time on more practical things that lead to concrete ends. I think on average, an individual needs to possess an initial intellectual interest in religion or philosophy, and the more they pursue that interest, the greater chance will be that they come across apologetics of the Christian, Islamic, etc. faith(s).
                        Two points:
                        1) that is not the case when you are a highschooler;
                        2) unless you already are busy having another world view (like science belief, evolutionism, etc).
                        http://notontimsblogroundhere.blogspot.fr/p/apologetics-section.html

                        Thanks, Sparko, for telling how I add the link here!

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by hansgeorg View Post
                          Two points:
                          1) that is not the case when you are a highschooler;
                          unwanted sarcasm is not productive!

                          2) unless you already are busy having another world view (like science belief, evolutionism, etc).
                          Interesting archaic anti-science terminology reflecting an ancient religious agenda.
                          Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                          Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                          But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                          go with the flow the river knows . . .

                          Frank

                          I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                            unwanted sarcasm is not productive!
                            No sarcasm at all involved.

                            When you are a highschooler, as a matter of fact, you are NOT too busy to be attending to questions about world views.

                            If x is not into apologetics, he might be into kabbalah, spiritism or ... atheistic apologetics, as per Dawkins.

                            Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                            Interesting archaic anti-science terminology reflecting an ancient religious agenda.
                            There is nothing archaic about the terminology and I am not anti-science : I am anti-modern-sham-science (Heliocentrism/Acentrism, Evolution and Old Age ...). Even if you could correctly identify an ancient religious agenda, it would not have used the terminology "science belief" back in the days of either St Augustine or St Thomas Aquinas.
                            http://notontimsblogroundhere.blogspot.fr/p/apologetics-section.html

                            Thanks, Sparko, for telling how I add the link here!

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by hansgeorg View Post
                              There is nothing archaic about the terminology and I am not anti-science : I am anti-modern-sham-science (Heliocentrism/Acentrism, Evolution and Old Age ...). Even if you could correctly identify an ancient religious agenda, it would not have used the terminology "science belief" back in the days of either St Augustine or St Thomas Aquinas.
                              That my friend is anti-science in spades.
                              Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                              Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                              But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                              go with the flow the river knows . . .

                              Frank

                              I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by hansgeorg View Post
                                Have you considered what kind of guys are running the school systems, most places over the world?
                                Yes, human beings.
                                Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                                Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                                But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                                go with the flow the river knows . . .

                                Frank

                                I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                                Comment

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