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Thread: Why is apologetics almost unknown?

  1. #21
    tWebber 37818's Avatar
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    The excitement of knowing one is saved and now possessing eternal life through faith in Christ - causing one to want tell others. Then the need to understand more of what one has come to believe. Encountering those who simply deny it out of hand. The Bible, the Holy Scriture being the basis of the faith. One finds oneself doing apologtices not even know that is what it is called.
    . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

    . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

    Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

  2. #22
    tWebber Ana Dragule's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spartacus View Post
    Oh, to be young again...

    I stumbled into apologetics as a teenager. I've also come across a number of other people who discovered apologetics at around the same age and were similarly drawn into it. I don't know if I would have been intellectually ready for it prior to then, so even if I'd heard the word used prior to that, I wouldn't have grasped its significance, and the thing itself would still have struck me as surprising and compelling and asked "why in the world don't we talk about this more???"

    ... but almost ten years later, I don't see it as quite as wonderful as I thought at first. For many people, apologetics is just preaching to the choir. I'm glad I learned about it, and I wouldn't have gotten into the study of theology, or, if I would have, not as readily or profitably, without apologetics. However, the arguments are of limited utility in the end.

    I think one of the key realizations for me was the different roles of the will and the intellect in a person's faith or lack thereof. Apologetics can clear away intellectual obstacles to faith, but I usually think of faith as a matter of the will, not the intellect. And apologetics doesn't do much for people who are in emotional crises of faith, which are, by my impressions at least, more common. Apologetics is fine to keep in your back pocket, and it's good for you to learn about and participate in these arguments while they hold your interest, but the arguments themselves aren't really all that useful.
    I see it as the intellect points us where to go and the will drives us toward it. I really found myself asking why do I even believe Christianity besides that I was trained to do so by people, I found having a cursery exposure to the arguments and the logic behind our faith and doctrine helpful in satisfying that certain key aspects of it are not without strong merit, more so than other alternatives. It gives the will strength when it is reassured that it is not exercised simply to the irrational and meritless over that which merit.
    I am become death...

  3. #23
    tWebber shunyadragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ana Dragule View Post
    I see it as the intellect points us where to go and the will drives us toward it. I really found myself asking why do I even believe Christianity besides that I was trained to do so by people, I found having a cursery exposure to the arguments and the logic behind our faith and doctrine helpful in satisfying that certain key aspects of it are not without strong merit, more so than other alternatives. It gives the will strength when it is reassured that it is not exercised simply to the irrational and meritless over that which merit.
    Interesting, but given the same arguments and logic, not cursory, but extensive contemplation, research, prayer and dialogues with many different believers of different faiths, I found the arguments and logic severely wanting, and and heavy in begging the question. The strongest motivation for belief is a 'sense of belonging,' of either there inherited belief or a search to find something to belong to.
    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

    go with the flow the river knows . . .

    Frank

    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

  4. Amen Charles amen'd this post.
  5. #24
    tWebber Ana Dragule's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shunyadragon View Post
    Interesting, but given the same arguments and logic, not cursory, but extensive contemplation, research, prayer and dialogues with many different believers of different faiths, I found the arguments and logic severely wanting, and and heavy in begging the question. The strongest motivation for belief is a 'sense of belonging,' of either there inherited belief or a search to find something to belong to.
    To an extent I agree, but our shared understanding of things contributes to our sense of belonging. In that sense, I think that the logical application of apologetics in personal faith develops our faith and even will to participate-kind of like a spiral, a circular effect but coming to a clearer point of where it's center is for that person.
    Last edited by Ana Dragule; 11-08-2016 at 07:01 AM.
    I am become death...

  6. #25
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheWall View Post
    I don't get it. Thousands of years worth of evidence and arguements and I didnt know about any of even the most basic stuff untill relatively recently.
    Why is that? Why is this information not thrusted into the public eye?
    Have you considered what kind of guys are running the school systems, most places over the world?

  7. #26
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scrawly View Post
    I think it has to do with the fact that most people are too busy living their lives, or simply don't care to venture into these cerebral areas of study. They might view it as a fruitless endeavor that isn't going to prove anything significant one way or another and, therefore, opt instead to spend their time on more practical things that lead to concrete ends. I think on average, an individual needs to possess an initial intellectual interest in religion or philosophy, and the more they pursue that interest, the greater chance will be that they come across apologetics of the Christian, Islamic, etc. faith(s).
    Two points:
    1) that is not the case when you are a highschooler;
    2) unless you already are busy having another world view (like science belief, evolutionism, etc).

  8. #27
    tWebber shunyadragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hansgeorg View Post
    Two points:
    1) that is not the case when you are a highschooler;
    unwanted sarcasm is not productive!

    2) unless you already are busy having another world view (like science belief, evolutionism, etc).
    Interesting archaic anti-science terminology reflecting an ancient religious agenda.
    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

    go with the flow the river knows . . .

    Frank

    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

  9. #28
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by shunyadragon View Post
    unwanted sarcasm is not productive!
    No sarcasm at all involved.

    When you are a highschooler, as a matter of fact, you are NOT too busy to be attending to questions about world views.

    If x is not into apologetics, he might be into kabbalah, spiritism or ... atheistic apologetics, as per Dawkins.

    Quote Originally Posted by shunyadragon View Post
    Interesting archaic anti-science terminology reflecting an ancient religious agenda.
    There is nothing archaic about the terminology and I am not anti-science : I am anti-modern-sham-science (Heliocentrism/Acentrism, Evolution and Old Age ...). Even if you could correctly identify an ancient religious agenda, it would not have used the terminology "science belief" back in the days of either St Augustine or St Thomas Aquinas.
    http://notontimsblogroundhere.blogspot.fr/p/apologetics-section.html

    Thanks, Sparko, for telling how I add the link here!

  10. #29
    tWebber shunyadragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hansgeorg View Post
    There is nothing archaic about the terminology and I am not anti-science : I am anti-modern-sham-science (Heliocentrism/Acentrism, Evolution and Old Age ...). Even if you could correctly identify an ancient religious agenda, it would not have used the terminology "science belief" back in the days of either St Augustine or St Thomas Aquinas.
    That my friend is anti-science in spades.
    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

    go with the flow the river knows . . .

    Frank

    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

  11. Amen Jedidiah amen'd this post.
  12. #30
    tWebber shunyadragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hansgeorg View Post
    Have you considered what kind of guys are running the school systems, most places over the world?
    Yes, human beings.
    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

    go with the flow the river knows . . .

    Frank

    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

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