The Afterlife

[sylvius]

why didnt they bother to write it down then? they wrote down the scriptures, the laws, and everything else. So how do we know they kept the oral tradition regarding the afterlife correct for 3000 years before they decided to write it down?

conveniently AFTER Christianity was on the scene by the way.

NT knows about (the existence of) oral law , and that it was rejected by the Sadducees,
Mark 12:18,

Some Sadducees, who say there is no resurrection, came to him and put this question to him,

So Sparko, you greatly err.

[Sparko]

NT knows about (the existence of) oral law , and that it was rejected by the Sadducees,
Mark 12:18,

Some Sadducees, who say there is no resurrection, came to him and put this question to him,

So Sparko, you greatly err.

as usual sylvius you make no sense whatsoever.

[sylvius]

as usual sylvius you make no sense whatsoever.

Resurrection is something else than afterlife


Mark 12:27,

He is not God of the dead but of the living.

You greatly err

[sylvius]

actually I was quite a bit off. It was about 1500 years, not 3000. but still a big gap.

there is no gap

Oral Torah was given together with Scriptural Torah on Mount Sinai.

Contained in an extra book within the book of Numbers,

viz., Numbers 10:35-36, see:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_nun

These two verses are recited every time in the synagogue when the Torah-scroll is taken out of and placed back into the aron hakodesh

By thus proving that it is an independent book ...

Numbers 10:35 contains twelve words, like the last verse of the Torah, Deuternomy 34:12,

וַיְהִי בִּנְסֹעַ הָאָרֹן וַיֹּאמֶר מֹשֶׁה קוּמָה יְהוָה וְיָפֻצוּ אֹיְבֶיךָ וְיָנֻסוּ מְשַׂנְאֶיךָ מִפָּנֶיךָ.

Numbers 10:36 contains seven words, like Genesis 1:1.

וּבְנֻחֹה יֹאמַר שׁוּבָה יְהוָה רִבְבוֹת אַלְפֵי יִשְׂרָאֵל

By thus proving that it is all all of Torah in a nutshell ...

Verse 35 is written with 54 letters, verse 36 with 31 letters - together 85 letters,

85 being the gematria of peh, mouth --

Thus proving that it contains the oral law, Torah she-b'al peh


F.e.,
Genesis 2:7 has וַיִּיצֶר, "and He formed" --
written with two letters yud --
Oral law knows why -- you need oral law to understand it right:

Rashi:

formed [וַיִּיצֶר, with two “yuds,” hints at] two creations, a creation for this world and a creation for the [time of the] resurrection of the dead, but in connection with the animals, which do not stand in judgment, two“yuds” are not written in [the word וַיִּצֶר describing their creation. — [from Tan. Tazria 1]

Christian bibles don't know nothing about it ...

And note:

According Torah we are now already gifted with a resurrected body -- we are created that way .

[Sparko]

there is no gap

Oral Torah was given together with Scriptural Torah on Mount Sinai.

Contained in an extra book within the book of Numbers,

viz., Numbers 10:35-36, see:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_nun

These two verses are recited every time in the synagogue when the Torah-scroll is taken out of and placed back into the aron hakodesh

By thus proving that it is an independent book ...

Numbers 10:35 contains twelve words, like the last verse of the Torah, Deuternomy 34:12,

וַיְהִי בִּנְסֹעַ הָאָרֹן וַיֹּאמֶר מֹשֶׁה קוּמָה יְהוָה וְיָפֻצוּ אֹיְבֶיךָ וְיָנֻסוּ מְשַׂנְאֶיךָ מִפָּנֶיךָ.

Numbers 10:36 contains seven words, like Genesis 1:1.

וּבְנֻחֹה יֹאמַר שׁוּבָה יְהוָה רִבְבוֹת אַלְפֵי יִשְׂרָאֵל

By thus proving that it is all all of Torah in a nutshell ...

Verse 35 is written with 54 letters, verse 36 with 31 letters - together 85 letters,

85 being the gematria of peh, mouth --

Thus proving that it contains the oral law, Torah she-b'al peh


F.e.,
Genesis 2:7 has וַיִּיצֶר, "and He formed" --
written with two letters yud --
Oral law knows why -- you need oral law to understand it right:

Rashi:


Christian bibles don't know nothing about it ...

And note:

According Torah we are now already gifted with a resurrected body -- we are created that way .

um yeah.

[sylvius]

um yeah.

[John Goddard]

According Torah we are now already gifted with a resurrected body -- we are created that way .

You mean we were dead before in some other age, and we're resurrected again right now?

I don't get it.

[sylvius]

You mean we were dead before in some other age, and we're resurrected again right now?

I don't get it.

Rashi:

[וַיִּיצֶר, with two “yuds,” hints at] two creations, a creation for this world and a creation for the [time of the] resurrection of the dead, but in connection with the animals, which do not stand in judgment, two“yuds” are not written in [the word וַיִּצֶר describing their creation].

Paul:

Behold, I tell you a mystery. We shall not all fall asleep, but we will all be changed, in an instant, in the blink of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

They are saying the same --

Paul says: en atomwi -- in an indivisible moment (atomos=indivisible)

Hebrew would have been rega, [hebrew]RG([/hebrew] -

which is the smallest unit of time --

So in this moment you are both --mortal and immortal --

it is the moment in which you were created --

time is eternal -- which is something else than endless..

in this very moment you are already the resurrected one. .

which is (the) mystery.

[Tanakh Keeper]

which Talmud are you getting the information from? The Babylonian Talmud written in AD 600 or the Jerusalem/Palestinian Talmud written in AD 400?

and how did Moses teach them this stuff about the afterlife 3,000 years after he died so they could write it down?

http://www.answers.com/topic/talmud

The Babylonian Talmud which was actually codified in 505 CE, not 600. G-d originally taught Moses, Moses taught the Elders, who taught the Prophets, who taught the Great Assembly.

I see that you are getting caught up in learning about the Talmud, rather than the afterlife. Here is a link providing additional details about the Talmud.
http://www.aish.com/literacy/concept..._Tradition.asp

[John Goddard]

Rashi:

[וַיִּיצֶר, with two “yuds,” hints at] two creations, a creation for this world and a creation for the [time of the] resurrection of the dead, but in connection with the animals, which do not stand in judgment, two“yuds” are not written in [the word וַיִּצֶר describing their creation].

Paul:

Behold, I tell you a mystery. We shall not all fall asleep, but we will all be changed, in an instant, in the blink of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

They are saying the same --

Paul says: en atomwi -- in an indivisible moment (atomos=indivisible)

Hebrew would have been rega, [hebrew]RG([/hebrew] -

which is the smallest unit of time --

So in this moment you are both --mortal and immortal --

it is the moment in which you were created --

time is eternal -- which is something else than endless..

in this very moment you are already the resurrected one. .

which is (the) mystery.

So you mean that in heaven/eternity, time isn't a factor, you are already there immortally in that realm.

But for the moment your physical presence is here and bound by time.

If that's what you mean, maybe that makes sense.

[Sparko]

The Babylonian Talmud which was actually codified in 505 CE, not 600.

what's 100 years out of over a thousand.

G-d originally taught Moses, Moses taught the Elders, who taught the Prophets, who taught the Great Assembly.

who didn't write it down for 1500 years. How do you know that what they wrote down was what God taught moses?

What I am wondering is that perhaps after a thousand years, and after seeing Christianity spread, and the sacrificial system destroyed, that the Jews had to come up with some other theology of the afterlife, one that eliminated the need for sacrifices and worrying about eternal punishment and so they invented all this stuff.

How can you know?

[Sparko]

Funny how all those resurrected bodies we have keep growing old and failing on us Slyvius. Why do we keep burying those resurrected bodies if we don't die?

[sylvius]

So you mean that in heaven/eternity, time isn't a factor, you are already there immortally in that realm.

But for the moment your physical presence is here and bound by time.

.

Yes, something like that --

Eternal life doesn't start after death, but is (already) now.

[sylvius]

Funny how all those resurrected bodies we have keep growing old and failing on us Slyvius. Why do we keep burying those resurrected bodies if we don't die?

And to another he said, "Follow me." But he replied, "(Lord,) let me go first and bury my father."
But he answered him, "Let the dead bury their dead. But you, go and proclaim the kingdom of God."

[Sparko]

<b>

And to another he said, "Follow me." But he replied, "(Lord,) let me go first and bury my father."
But he answered him, "Let the dead bury their dead. But you, go and proclaim the kingdom of God."

</b>

That's not a refutation. Christians grow old and die and get buried just like everyone else.