JW Question

[faithymom]

I have a question. I asked it on the LDS board and I'm curious to hear from the JW side.
Assuming there really was an apostacy, what evidence is there to prove that Jehovah's Witnesses have the 'restoration' as opposed to, say, the Mormons?
Latter Day Saints claim the same thing: that there was a great apostacy and THEY are now the 'true church'.
How does one determine who really has this restored gospel?
What evidence is there?

-Faith

[faithymom]

Apparently no answers here, either...










Trying to hide my shock

[Sparko]

[Krusader]

I have a question. I asked it on the LDS board and I'm curious to hear from the JW side.
Assuming there really was an apostacy, what evidence is there to prove that Jehovah's Witnesses have the 'restoration' as opposed to, say, the Mormons?
Latter Day Saints claim the same thing: that there was a great apostacy and THEY are now the 'true church'.
How does one determine who really has this restored gospel?
What evidence is there?

-Faith

Probably the difference between the Mormon contention that Christianity had to be re-established by their "prophet," the glass looker, Smith, and the Jehovah's Witnesses contention that they are the "true" Church, is the fact that Jehovah's Witnesses would not agree that there was a total apostasy. According to the Watchtower, there have always been a few members of the Christian Congregation living in every era. It was Russell who organized them into the Society, according to their view.

[faithymom]

So I get a less verbose but equally non-existent answer here as I did from the LDS.

[IncRus]

I have a question. I asked it on the LDS board and I'm curious to hear from the JW side.
Assuming there really was an apostacy, what evidence is there to prove that Jehovah's Witnesses have the 'restoration' as opposed to, say, the Mormons?
Latter Day Saints claim the same thing: that there was a great apostacy and THEY are now the 'true church'.
How does one determine who really has this restored gospel?
What evidence is there?

-Faith

I have talked to Jehovah's Witnesses and Latter Day Saints extensively anout their doctrines and they have NOT shown me convincing Biblical proofs that either of them is indeed the REVIVAL of the first century church built by Christ.

JWs believe that Jesus is a "god" (John 1:1, 18) which the Bible says is an "idol" (Psalm 96:5). The apostles taught that Jesus is "Lord" (1 Cor. 8:6) and "a MAN" (Acts 2:22; 17:31; 1 Tim. 2:5) - NOT "a god."

LDS believe that Jesus is BOTH Father and Son (Mossiah 15:1-3) The apostles taught that Jesus is the "Son of God" (Matt. 16:16; John 20:31) and Jesus HAS a God AND Father (John 20:17; 1 Peter 1:3; 2 Cor. 1:3).

JWs and LDS, like Catholics and Protestants, teach ANOTHER Jesus that the apostles NEVER preached (2 Cor. 11:3-4).

[Sparko]

wow I would have liked to be a fly on the wall when Incrus and JWs were in the same room accusing each other of being in a cult.

[IncRus]

wow I would have liked to be a fly on the wall when Incrus and JWs were in the same room accusing each other of being in a cult.

Add to these two, the Seventh Day Adventists who insist on observing the Sabbath despite Jesus and the apostles breaking it and all trinitarian churches who believe in a fictional one-in-three God.

These churches CAN'T be the restoration of the Biblical church of Christ.

[Ninjalan]

LDS: The JW's CAN'T be the restoration of the church! They're a CULT!

JW'S: The LDS's CAN'T be the restoration of the church! They're a CULT!

[Gatsby]

I have a question regarding the J.W's.

Why do they think that 'GOD' would be 'upset' if they did not use the name Jehova? Do they really think God is just like us with a ego, which is a human trait and not a Godly trait. I was told once that the J.W.'s really believed that God would be offended.

If God is love as we are all taught regardless of any prefered faith, the by logic alone, He could not be offended!

[evantisin]

I have a question regarding the J.W's.

Why do they think that 'GOD' would be 'upset' if they did not use the name Jehova? Do they really think God is just like us with a ego, which is a human trait and not a Godly trait. I was told once that the J.W.'s really believed that God would be offended.

If God is love as we are all taught regardless of any prefered faith, the by logic alone, He could not be offended!

It is not absolutely necessary as a testimony of one's faith in God.

However, the scriptures do say that God gets offended and prefers that he be called upon by name.

This Psalm declares that God's name should be acknowledged:
Psalm 79:6

6 Pour out your wrath on the nations
that do not acknowledge you,
on the kingdoms
that do not call on your name;

God's reputation is reflected by his name. He avenges misrepresentation of him and profaning his name, saying he thus intends to make his name known (Ezekiel 36:22-23; Isaiah 52:5-6).

David says to praise God's name (Psalm 148:13). How can one do this if they don't know what it is, let alone attempt to say it?

Jesus states in his prayer that he has made God's name known (John 17:26). Do all his followers know God's name?

God says he has shown his power so that his "name may be declared throughout the Earth" (Exodus 9:16).

In Isaiah 12:2-4, the King James Version renders God's name as "JEHOVAH" and says to "call upon his name, declare his doings among the people, make mention that his name is exalted."

God says he praises those who know his name (Psalm 91:14).

Is it absolutely necessary to know God's name? Objectively, probably not, but God does say that he has made himself known to the patriarchs by his name (Exodus 6:3) and intends that his name be known.

God willing, any sincere attempt at pronouncing his name would be acknowledged by God as a strong dedication to him, especially in prayer.

Accuracy and the exact way to pronounce a name is not so much of a concern. "Jesus" is not how Jesus' name was actually pronounced or spelled. It's actually "Yeshua" or "Yesh'ua," but there isn't much issue at all with saying "Jesus" instead. It is a translation into another language using the language's own alphabet. God intends that he be known throughout the Earth, even among the Gentiles, so addressing him by God's name goes along with translating God's word into other languages.

[jahrule84]

IncRus,
I agree that JWs and SDAs cannot be a restoration of Christianity. But the Jesus you worship is not Almighty, All-knowing God of the Bible.

John 5:26 says that the Father GAVE Jesus life. He was created.
Only a created being can call another person "MY God." Rev 3:12
A relationship of equals cannot have one being THE GOD OF the other! Jesus is a worshipper of God just as much as any other being.

Rev 1:1 "the revelation of Jesus Christ, which God GAVE unto him."
The event of the end had to be REVEALED TO Jesus. God Almighty does not RECEIVE revelations; Jesus does.

Note Rev 1:1; 3:12 deal with Jesus in his glorified position in heaven, long after the resurrection. Yet, he is still not on par with the Almighty.

[Gatsby]

It is not absolutely necessary as a testimony of one's faith in God.

However, the scriptures do say that God gets offended and prefers that he be called upon by name.

This Psalm declares that God's name should be acknowledged:
Psalm 79:6

6 Pour out your wrath on the nations
that do not acknowledge you,
on the kingdoms
that do not call on your name;

God's reputation is reflected by his name. He avenges misrepresentation of him and profaning his name, saying he thus intends to make his name known (Ezekiel 36:22-23; Isaiah 52:5-6).

David says to praise God's name (Psalm 148:13). How can one do this if they don't know what it is, let alone attempt to say it?

Jesus states in his prayer that he has made God's name known (John 17:26). Do all his followers know God's name?

God says he has shown his power so that his "name may be declared throughout the Earth" (Exodus 9:16).

In Isaiah 12:2-4, the King James Version renders God's name as "JEHOVAH" and says to "call upon his name, declare his doings among the people, make mention that his name is exalted."

God says he praises those who know his name (Psalm 91:14).

Is it absolutely necessary to know God's name? Objectively, probably not, but God does say that he has made himself known to the patriarchs by his name (Exodus 6:3) and intends that his name be known.

God willing, any sincere attempt at pronouncing his name would be acknowledged by God as a strong dedication to him, especially in prayer.

Accuracy and the exact way to pronounce a name is not so much of a concern. "Jesus" is not how Jesus' name was actually pronounced or spelled. It's actually "Yeshua" or "Yesh'ua," but there isn't much issue at all with saying "Jesus" instead. It is a translation into another language using the language's own alphabet. God intends that he be known throughout the Earth, even among the Gentiles, so addressing him by God's name goes along with translating God's word into other languages.

Thanks for your reply. I do understand that the J.W's are most sincere in their 'faith' However how do you square God avenging with a God of Love. Truth is, they do not square.

What did God say to Moses when he asked of God who would he tell them had spoken, when he was communicating with God. The reply was to tell them 'That I am' spoke, hence you have the correct name. Excuse me that I dont have the text in front of me but Iam sure you will know which one I refer to.

Regards

[IncRus]

Jesus states in his prayer that he has made God's name known (John 17:26). Do all his followers know God's name?

Jesus, indeed, made God' name known to his disciples. However, it is NOT "Jehovah" which is what JWs believe God's name is.

What is that name that Jesus made known to his disciples?

The answer is found in John 17:11-12 (TEV) where Jesus asked the Father to safeguard his disciples "BY the name that God has GIVEN him."

What name did God GIVE Jesus? According to apostle Paul, God GAVE Jesus a name that is ABOVE every name" (Phil. 2:9).

According to apostle Peter, God MADE Jesus, the MAN whom the Jews crucified, BOTH "Lord and Christ" (Acts 2:36). That's the reason why JESUS, the name given to the son that Mary gave birth to (Matt. 1:21; Luke 1:31), is today called, Jesus Christ, Christ, or Christ Jesus.

"And there is NO OTHER name given AMONG men by which we must be saved" (Acts 4:12).

The CHURCH that Christ built (Matt. 16:18) is Christ's "body" (Eph. 1:21-22) of which Christ is the HEAD (Col. 1:18). According to apostle Paul, both Jews and Greeks are "RECONCILED to God in ONE body through the cross" (Epn. 2:16).

Therefore, for one to be "reconciled to God and be saved," one has to:"enter the fold or the sheep by Jesus" (John 10:7,9).

The "body" or "church of Christ" is composed of Christ's sheep or fold (Luke 12:32; John 10:16; John 10:27-28).

Therefore, the ONLY WAY whereby one is saved by the name that is above every name is by becoming a "member individually of that one body" (Rom. 12:4-5; 1 Cor. 12:27) THROUGH "baptism into the one body or church of Christ" (1 Cor. 12:13).

[IncRus]

IncRus,
I agree that JWs and SDAs cannot be a restoration of Christianity. But the Jesus you worship is not Almighty, All-knowing God of the Bible.

John 5:26 says that the Father GAVE Jesus life. He was created.
Only a created being can call another person "MY God." Rev 3:12
A relationship of equals cannot have one being THE GOD OF the other! Jesus is a worshipper of God just as much as any other being.

Rev 1:1 "the revelation of Jesus Christ, which God GAVE unto him."
The event of the end had to be REVEALED TO Jesus. God Almighty does not RECEIVE revelations; Jesus does.

Note Rev 1:1; 3:12 deal with Jesus in his glorified position in heaven, long after the resurrection. Yet, he is still not on par with the Almighty.

I agree 100% with what you are saying. Jesus is a MAN (John 8:40) - NOT God because the Father is the ONLY true God (John 17:3).

Jesus acknowledged that he himself has a God and Father (John 20:17). Jesus also acknowledged that he himself WORSHIPS God the Father (John 4:22).

BTW, I do NOT worship Jesus because he is a MAN and ONLY God is to be worshiped (Matt. 4:10; REv. 19:10; Rev. 22:9). However, as HEAD of the "body" the "church of Christ," I subject myself to his authority. I strive to DO everything he says and OBEY everything he commands.