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  • Originally posted by TheWall View Post

    See what I mean? Look at you. Look at yourselves. Is this what you want? To rip and tear at eachother? For what? It does ni good to you.
    I agree with you TheWall. The problem, I think, lies between the fact that both sides rhetoric are naturally going to oppose, and honestly demi has added nothing to value to TWeb compared to you. You at least make an effort to post; he regurgitates the next talking point of the alt-right.

    And this is probably going to continue on for the next election season, unless some people learn to evaluate their positions rationally and challenge their preconceptions.
    "It's evolution; every time you invent something fool-proof, the world invents a better fool."
    -Unknown

    "Preach the gospel, and if necessary use words." - Most likely St.Francis


    I find that evolution is the best proof of God.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I support the :
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    • Originally posted by Irate Canadian View Post
      You don't understand the scientific principle of herd immunity.. so please shut up, demi.

      Even if we take the hightest estimate of illegal immigrants as 11.4 M immigrants, a majority of them will be vaccinated at birth or after
      Citation needed!!

      This is all your baseless assertions so please, go away from this thread, and hopefully this site too, because I don't think you add value to any discussion I've seen you participate in.
      Someone is triggered
      Remember that you are dust and to dust you shall return.

      Comment


      • I think you guys are going to have to sit down and forgive each other.
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        • Originally posted by Starlight View Post
          To explain my "it's probably better for progressives in the medium term for Clinton not to win" theory from another angle:

          There's a known result in political science that voters tend to like a party less on the national level the longer it is in power (it's the opposite on a local level - mayors become more popular the longer they are in power) and in practice this tends to lead to voter-enforced term limits. For example, a common phenomenon in NZ is that parties almost never win more than three consecutive terms. In America, it's been the case since WWII, that no party has ever had more than three consecutive terms in the presidency.

          This suggests that Clinton, if she wins, will only get one term, and then Republicans will get the presidency after that. Hillary Clinton herself has consistently gotten less popular over time each time she has put herself in the national spotlight (her favorability ratings consistently trend downwards over the course of campaigns which is very unusual for a politician and shows that the more voters learn about her the less they like her), which agrees that her chances of winning a second term are slim. What potentially could save her would be the country's changing demographics - the growing non-white population leans democrat and the millennials lean democrat. So there's a slim possibility that she could break the historical trends of three terms, but on balance the chances seem pretty high that Clinton would be a one-term presidency.

          Given those factors, the highly probable scenarios voters are being asked to choose between are:
          a) Four years of a Clinton presidency followed by 1-3 terms of Republican presidencies.
          b) Four years of a Trump presidency (I feel I'm being generous to him by assuming he lasts that long and isn't impeached) followed by 1-3 terms of Democratic presidencies.

          It's a matter of whether you prefer to briefly have a democratic president followed by potentially multiple Republican terms. Or whether you're happy to grant Republicans a brief term in office now in the hope of a longer stretch of democratic presidents later. i.e. how much do you value the present over the future or vice versa? Likewise it's a matter of how bad / how good you think Trump and Clinton themselves would be.

          From the point of view of most progressives, option (b) is probably preferable because (i) Clinton isn't a champion of progressive values so you don't gain much by sacrificing the future to get 4 years of Clinton in the present, (ii) Trump can be relied upon to self-destruct and definitely not be a two term president and to make every undecided voter in the country suddenly want to vote Democrat and you should get majorities handed to you in 2020 when you can put a truly progressive candidate into office and have a good chance of getting three terms on the back of better demographics and the Republican party trying to rethink its existence to cope with the changed demographics.

          So, let's say you really care about a particular progressive issue that Hillary's said she's against and has mocked, like single-payer healthcare. Option (a) ensures it won't happen until 2024 at the earliest. Whereas in option (b) it could happen as soon as 2020.
          I have a feeling that you're extrapolating a relation that doesn't exist. There is no hard and fast rule that there has to be a flip-flop every election, and there's no guarantee that the Dem of 2020-2024 are going to be in a better position/moved left enough to enable those positions.
          "It's evolution; every time you invent something fool-proof, the world invents a better fool."
          -Unknown

          "Preach the gospel, and if necessary use words." - Most likely St.Francis


          I find that evolution is the best proof of God.
          ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
          I support the :
          sigpic

          Comment


          • Originally posted by demi-conservative View Post
            Citation needed!!



            Someone is triggered
            Thought so, you just want to wallow in your ignorance. Allow me to illuminate the path:

            http://www.theyucatantimes.com/2015/...se-since-1996/

            Which is the secret behind the success of México’s vaccination policy?Basically 3 features:
            1) It is Universal: By law, everybody in México has the right to have access to vaccines.
            2) It is Free: In México everybody can and will have free vaccines. You can always pay for them with your private physician, many people prefer that instead of attending to the crowded public health services; however, there’s no restriction for asking for free vaccination.
            As a matter of fact, in the so-called “National Health Days”, there are mobile vaccination brigades spread countrywide. In some areas, this brigades are located as near as 3km from another one, and they vaccinate every child, elder, pregnant woman or at-risk adult who attend.
            3) It is Mandatory: Every registered Mexican child is granted a “National Vaccination Card” (which is actually a 3 page booklet), where their vaccination history has to be registered.
            Now do you still question Herd Immunity? Also, you do realize Mexico isn't the leader in terms of illegal immigration either, do you?
            "It's evolution; every time you invent something fool-proof, the world invents a better fool."
            -Unknown

            "Preach the gospel, and if necessary use words." - Most likely St.Francis


            I find that evolution is the best proof of God.
            ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
            I support the :
            sigpic

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Irate Canadian View Post
              Also, you do realize Mexico isn't the leader in terms of illegal immigration either, do you?
              Your logic sucks:

              You say that dangers from illegal immigration cos of unvaccinated immigrants is low because a) Mexico has high vaccination rates but b) most illegal immigration doesn't come from Mexico.

              Last edited by demi-conservative; 10-01-2016, 11:45 PM.
              Remember that you are dust and to dust you shall return.

              Comment



              • This is ridiculous.
                sigpic

                Comment


                • Originally posted by demi-conservative View Post
                  Your logic sucks:

                  You say that dangers from illegal immigration cos of unvaccinated immigrants is low because a) Mexico has high vaccination rates but b) most illegal immigration doesn't come from Mexico.


                  You claimed both items were true. Both of them are patently false. Now either show your evidence, or go to another site where you can make baseless assertions without evidence.
                  "It's evolution; every time you invent something fool-proof, the world invents a better fool."
                  -Unknown

                  "Preach the gospel, and if necessary use words." - Most likely St.Francis


                  I find that evolution is the best proof of God.
                  ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  I support the :
                  sigpic

                  Comment


                  • And of course, the truely scientific would look at data, like from WHO (instead of 'look at us we are so awesome!!!' Mexican newspaper):

                    While reported cases in Mexico, 2014, is indeed two, WHO estimates 4512 suspected cases, cos, mr 'scientific', reported =/= actual.
                    Last edited by demi-conservative; 10-01-2016, 11:53 PM.
                    Remember that you are dust and to dust you shall return.

                    Comment


                    • I sure hope that you guys won't let the sun fall down on your anger at eachother. It would certainly be a shame.
                      sigpic

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                      • Originally posted by Irate Canadian View Post
                        You claimed both items were true..
                        No, dumbass, I did not.

                        For you, however, given mass influx (millions) of illegal immigrations, what's the safety on that, mr 'scientific' who is so concerned about immunity and vaccines??
                        Remember that you are dust and to dust you shall return.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by demi-conservative View Post
                          And of course, the truely scientific would look at data, like from WHO (instead of 'look at us we are so awesome' Mexican newspaper):

                          While reported cases in Mexico, 2014, is indeed two, WHO estimates 4512 suspected cases, cos, mr 'scientific', reported =/= actual.
                          Suspected could be a various other diseases, Demi. It's likely that those cases resolved themselves before they could be checked by the lab.

                          Now answer the question: do you believe vaccines work, and do you believe in herd immunity? because your favorite source, Mr. Donald Trump seems to think that they don't do anything of value.
                          "It's evolution; every time you invent something fool-proof, the world invents a better fool."
                          -Unknown

                          "Preach the gospel, and if necessary use words." - Most likely St.Francis


                          I find that evolution is the best proof of God.
                          ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                          I support the :
                          sigpic

                          Comment


                          • 'scientific' canuck: vaccination in Mexico is good *points to 'look at us we are so awesome!!!' Mexican newspaper*

                            me: , looks up WHO data

                            So much for 'scientific posing'. Libs
                            Remember that you are dust and to dust you shall return.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Irate Canadian View Post
                              Suspected could be a various other diseases, Demi. It's likely that those cases resolved themselves before they could be checked by the lab.
                              Could be, but that means actual cases still much more than the 0 reported by 'oh look we so awesome!!!!' Mexican newspaper.

                              Now answer the question: do you believe vaccines work, and do you believe in herd immunity? because your favorite source, Mr. Donald Trump seems to think that they don't do anything of value.
                              No you answer question: don't unvaccinated illegal immigrants pose dangers, especially when most come from nations with not-as-perfect immunization scheme like Mexico ()?
                              Remember that you are dust and to dust you shall return.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by demi-conservative View Post
                                No, dumbass, I did not.

                                For you, however, given mass influx (millions) of illegal immigrations, what's the safety on that, mr 'scientific' who is so concerned about immunity and vaccines??
                                If they're vaccinated, it's not going to affect herd immunity... which for the most part, includes most modern nations, even if they're third-world. Plus I don't know if the WHO reports standards include actual cases of measles, or if the system is used like the VAER's systems most anti-vaxxers make a false claim with.
                                "It's evolution; every time you invent something fool-proof, the world invents a better fool."
                                -Unknown

                                "Preach the gospel, and if necessary use words." - Most likely St.Francis


                                I find that evolution is the best proof of God.
                                ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                I support the :
                                sigpic

                                Comment

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