Where are the demons today?

[Eeset-Shadowgrl]

Luke 8:26-39 is mirrored in both Matthew and Mark. The timing in the ministry of Jesus seems slightly different in the 3 but the same substance is there.

Jesus cast out demons and healed sickness in those verses. People who fed them went and spread the word and many came to see. When they came and saw the whole multitude was seized with fear and asked him to depart. Why fear? Obviously they were in a panic to see Jesus depart from them. Why?

Today I seldom hear of demons except in the movies. Surely they still exist and possess people. I doubt the possessed are all locked up under psychiatric care. Is there Scripture that says something somehow changed demons so that they can no longer possess people? I really would like to hear the thoughts of other Christians on the broad topic of demons. I would like to hear all parts of those verses put into the perspective of other new testament passages. Have demons changed and become more sophisticated so they no longer seem as obvious when they inhabit a human body and take it over?

[Manwë Súlimo]

I believe demon possessions are exceedingly rare, and I believe the relative prevalence of them around Jesus' ministry was due BECAUSE of Jesus' ministry (i.e. they wanted to throw a wrench in the system AND/OR God planned it to show His power).

Also, just because a few cases were very obvious (the man throwing himself in the fire, the case of Legion, etc), does not mean that ALL cases of possession will be obvious. I think the enemy could get a lot more work done if they didn't draw so much attention onto themselves. I have heard stories (true or not, I can not say) where relatively normal people will go berserk when they come into contact with anything Christian; thus revealing something supernatural in their lifes that wasn't always immediately obvious.

Do demons still possess people? I'm willing to think so. Will this always manifest itself as an obvious situation as seen in "The Exorcist"? Very rarely.

And in the same vein, some Christians believe that Satan currently has no power. Indeed, they would say he is bound up, waiting for the time when he'll be released again for a short time before the final Judgment.


EDIT:

Obviously they were in a panic to see Jesus depart from them. Why?

I always read that as anger. Jesus indirectly caused the death of the man's livestock. Would you want someone around that ruined your business?

[Vivian]

• Edited by a Moderator •

Moderated By: Johnny

Christianity 201 is for 'orthodox' Christians only, unless prior permission to post has been requested and granted.

FYI, Eeset sought and has received permission.

Remember, the contents of this thread must remain at all times within the bounds of orthodox Christianity.

***If you wish to take issue with this notice DO NOT do so in this thread.***
Contact the forum moderator or an administrator in Private Message or email instead. If you feel you must publically complain or whine, please take it to the Psychotherapy Room unless told otherwise.

Viv

[Jin-Roh]

"The greatest trick the devil ever pulled, was convincing the world that he didn't exist." -The Usual Suspects.

[Dispen4ever]

I think it is relatively easy to understand that a demon, a messenger of satan, cannot co-exist with the Holy Spirit in a Christian. It is also relatively easy to understand that without the presence of the Holy Spirit, possession is a probability. I further believe that satan would rather spend his time OOOOpressing Christians (not possessing--that's impossible) than messing with those who are in a lost condition to begin with --- not ever having received Christ as Savior and following Him as Lord. The devil would rather thwart the witness of a Believer than hang out with those who are unsaved. That's why one sees more cases of oppression than possession nowadays, imho. When Jesus first made His appearance, satan wanted to thwart Him completely, then that failing, subdue / confuse / muddle His teaching. Now he wants to prevent the distribution of his teaching by we Christians. He'll let the unsaved continue to "do their own thing." He doesn't have to worry about them.

[Eeset-Shadowgrl]

OK but Demons are legion. They are the minions of Satan not Satan himself. I am of the opinion that they still inhabit many people today just as they did long ago. I also do not believe everyone who attends church is saved. In fact its great that unsaved attend churches for Jesus did not come to save the righteous but the sinners - by his own statement.

What I see is today there seems to be a general ignorance or even denial of demons. People are said too often to have "problems" when maybe the problem is a form of possession. I have witnessed a few preachers who pray loudly for the demons to depart from a parishioner but its a rare occurrence. I think demons these days have become much more subtle and hence just like Satan convincing many that he doesn't exist so have his minions done the same. Its very clear in the New Testament that Jesus met Satan. Nowhere except for the revelation of John is Satan bound, chained, banished or destroyed. I see the Apostles given power to drive out demons.

So here is a tidbit of personal experience. I have a friend who I used to think was just someone who couldn't control his drinking. One day he was "high" and began criticizing Christianity. Suddenly I was given insight that it was neither him nor the alcohol speaking but a very real demon. I began returning his conversation by praying out loud in the name of Jesus for the demons to depart him. He went wild. He started yelling at me. He became frantic. He ran off and I did not see him for days. He was actually howling something like a wail when he ran off. Now maybe it is a little clearer why I would like more opinions on this subject. Should I have just told him I was not interested in talking with him and he should go sleep it off?

[Manwë Súlimo]

OK but Demons are legion. They are the minions of Satan not Satan himself.

Was there ever a question about that?

I am of the opinion that they still inhabit many people today just as they did long ago. I also do not believe everyone who attends church is saved. In fact its great that unsaved attend churches for Jesus did not come to save the righteous but the sinners - by his own statement.

Agreed.

What I see is today there seems to be a general ignorance or even denial of demons. People are said too often to have "problems" when maybe the problem is a form of possession. I have witnessed a few preachers who pray loudly for the demons to depart from a parishioner but its a rare occurrence. I think demons these days have become much more subtle and hence just like Satan convincing many that he doesn't exist so have his minions done the same. Its very clear in the New Testament that Jesus met Satan.

Saying everything is supernatural is just as ignorant as saying nothing is supernatural. It may be that some with apparent mental problems are possessed, but I'm not sure how we can know for sure.

Nowhere except for the revelation of John is Satan bound, chained, banished or destroyed.

Many preterists like myself believe the scripture in Revelation of Satan being bound for a thousand years (read: and indefinite long period of time) as already fulfilled before or during 70AD.

I see the Apostles given power to drive out demons.

Yes. Satan is bound, not every demon.

So here is a tidbit of personal experience. I have a friend who I used to think was just someone who couldn't control his drinking. One day he was "high" and began criticizing Christianity. Suddenly I was given insight that it was neither him nor the alcohol speaking but a very real demon. I began returning his conversation by praying out loud in the name of Jesus for the demons to depart him. He went wild. He started yelling at me. He became frantic. He ran off and I did not see him for days. He was actually howling something like a wail when he ran off. Now maybe it is a little clearer why I would like more opinions on this subject.

If he was indeed possessed, it would be a good example of how I believe the vast majority of possessions manifest themselves: by ruining the life of the person with things such as alcohol.

Should I have just told him I was not interested in talking with him and he should go sleep it off?

I can't say one way or the other. Does he still hit the drink hard? If he does, you can try to help him.

[FredFlanders]

Luke 8:26-39 is mirrored in both Matthew and Mark. The timing in the ministry of Jesus seems slightly different in the 3 but the same substance is there.

Jesus cast out demons and healed sickness in those verses. People who fed them went and spread the word and many came to see. When they came and saw the whole multitude was seized with fear and asked him to depart. Why fear? Obviously they were in a panic to see Jesus depart from them. Why?

Today I seldom hear of demons except in the movies. Surely they still exist and possess people. I doubt the possessed are all locked up under psychiatric care. Is there Scripture that says something somehow changed demons so that they can no longer possess people? I really would like to hear the thoughts of other Christians on the broad topic of demons. I would like to hear all parts of those verses put into the perspective of other new testament passages. Have demons changed and become more sophisticated so they no longer seem as obvious when they inhabit a human body and take it over?

Eeset,
Casting out demons is something I have been involved in.

To give some explanation to what a demon is I will explain it this way. Just as God reveals Himself by the Holy Spirit to do the His works, Satan reveals himself by spirits known as demons. Their task is to appose God and His word by what ever form he can. They can appear such as events you can see on Hollywood movies, through physical sickness and mental illness or he can hide through simple words coming from false religion. Satan is the master of deceit and will try anyway he can to to deceive people into apposing the true God of creation who we now know through Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit which He sent for the first time on the Day of Pentecost.
Two main entry point can be through unforgiveness and bitterness, also when some one has been through traumatic events such as death or sexual assault for example.
They can dwell in Christians. They dwell in your flesh and not in your Spirit and can take the form of physical and mental sickness. For example depression is demonic spirit that can cast out. Satan will send them especially to Christians because he has already defeated the unbeliever and do what he can to defeat a Christian. False religions are full of demonic activity who deny the power of Christ. Because a Christian has a demon does not mean they are not saved but the purpose of the demon is to get the Christian believer to deny Christ and die. It is important when Christians are attacked by demons(which we all are) is to walk in the Word of God, be repentant and cast the demon out by the blood of Jesus. Some are stronger than others and will require much prayer, seeking and fasting to God. Demons hate Christ and His Blood and will flee when cast out by these words. This gift is given to believers as we read in Mark 16 v 16-18.
Many false religions deny the power and gifts of God but demons are real and so is sickness but can be overcome and cast out by the Blood of Jesus.

[Trusty]

I guess demons hang around charismatic, pentecostal, and catholic folks waiting to get tossed out of someone...

Can any demon hunters tell me whether or not they are material or immaterial? I had the impression from the Bible that they were material...not invisible.

And by material, I do mean physical, even if "transparent".

And yes, I am really asking.

[Trusty]

Eeset,
Casting out demons is something I have been involved in.

To give some explanation to what a demon is I will explain it this way. Just as God reveals Himself by the Holy Spirit to do the His works, Satan reveals himself by spirits known as demons. Their task is to appose God and His word by what ever form he can. They can appear such as events you can see on Hollywood movies, through physical sickness and mental illness or he can hide through simple words coming from false religion. Satan is the master of deceit and will try anyway he can to to deceive people into apposing the true God of creation who we now know through Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit which He sent for the first time on the Day of Pentecost.
Two main entry point can be through unforgiveness and bitterness, also when some one has been through traumatic events such as death or sexual assault for example.
They can dwell in Christians. They dwell in your flesh and not in your Spirit and can take the form of physical and mental sickness. For example depression is demonic spirit that can cast out. Satan will send them especially to Christians because he has already defeated the unbeliever and do what he can to defeat a Christian. False religions are full of demonic activity who deny the power of Christ. Because a Christian has a demon does not mean they are not saved but the purpose of the demon is to get the Christian believer to deny Christ and die. It is important when Christians are attacked by demons(which we all are) is to walk in the Word of God, be repentant and cast the demon out by the blood of Jesus. Some are stronger than others and will require much prayer, seeking and fasting to God. Demons hate Christ and His Blood and will flee when cast out by these words. This gift is given to believers as we read in Mark 16 v 16-18.
Many false religions deny the power and gifts of God but demons are real and so is sickness but can be overcome and cast out by the Blood of Jesus.

Okay, before this gets referenced to me as my answer, could someone more grounded in reality please answer me.

Thanks.

[FredFlanders]

Okay, before this gets referenced to me as my answer, could someone more grounded in reality please answer me.

Thanks.

Trusty,
You cannot understand this because it is revealed by the Holy Spirit.
You don not know the Holy Spirit because you receive the Holy Spirit by Faith. At the moment you are trying to solve these questions about God and the demonic by your natural thinking. This is impossible without faith and unconditional acceptance and obedience to the Word of God.

[FredFlanders]

OK but Demons are legion. They are the minions of Satan not Satan himself. I am of the opinion that they still inhabit many people today just as they did long ago. I also do not believe everyone who attends church is saved. In fact its great that unsaved attend churches for Jesus did not come to save the righteous but the sinners - by his own statement.

What I see is today there seems to be a general ignorance or even denial of demons. People are said too often to have "problems" when maybe the problem is a form of possession. I have witnessed a few preachers who pray loudly for the demons to depart from a parishioner but its a rare occurrence. I think demons these days have become much more subtle and hence just like Satan convincing many that he doesn't exist so have his minions done the same. Its very clear in the New Testament that Jesus met Satan. Nowhere except for the revelation of John is Satan bound, chained, banished or destroyed. I see the Apostles given power to drive out demons.

So here is a tidbit of personal experience. I have a friend who I used to think was just someone who couldn't control his drinking. One day he was "high" and began criticizing Christianity. Suddenly I was given insight that it was neither him nor the alcohol speaking but a very real demon. I began returning his conversation by praying out loud in the name of Jesus for the demons to depart him. He went wild. He started yelling at me. He became frantic. He ran off and I did not see him for days. He was actually howling something like a wail when he ran off. Now maybe it is a little clearer why I would like more opinions on this subject. Should I have just told him I was not interested in talking with him and he should go sleep it off?

Eeset,
What you witnessed was a demonic spirit and yes they hate the name of Jesus. And yes they can talk through people just like you would some times see on Hollywood movies. You can talk to the spirit as it will have full knowledge about the word of God. Believe it or not it may even tell you its name. This is only one of many manifestations of a demonic spirit. This is a spirit that dwells in their flesh and can talk through the person who has the spirit. This spirit is talking through the demon. The spirit can be cast out and to stay out the person would have to repent to God and accept Jesus otherwise the spirit would still have legal right to return.

[Trusty]

Trusty,
You cannot understand this because it is revealed by the Holy Spirit.
You don not know the Holy Spirit because you receive the Holy Spirit by Faith. At the moment you are trying to solve these questions about God and the demonic by your natural thinking. This is impossible without faith and unconditional acceptance and obedience to the Word of God.

Excuse me? First off, I received the Holy Spirit the day I was saved. (thus I "know Him") Secondly, I am not trying to "solve" these questions, I am just asking. I understand God fairly well I think, which is why I asked about the rest of it. I am under the impression that outside of God, everything He created, including heaven and it's occupants are material in some fashion. Secondly, I have faith and unconditional acceptance and obedience (best I can) to God and His Word...however, I think don't think that some sort of sensible reading of the Scriptures isn't totally out of line either.

I thought the whole idea of angels and demons swinging swords at each other in some invisible war swirling around our heads was for children. I believe in angels and demons, but I don't believe that they are quite as fanciful as apparently other people do. And I don't see them as being particularly active today like they were coming to the end of the canon.

Angels and demons were viable to people in the scriptures (how else would the authors describe them), capture me one on camera sometime at your next exorcist and we'll talk.

Until then, can someone else that isn't fascinated by Frank Peretti books talk to me about this? I am generally interested.And kind of an offshoot question, since we have inherent sinful nature, why do some people scapegoat demons (who also happen to obey God) as being necessary to facilitate our sinful actions?

[Eeset-Shadowgrl]

Can any demon hunters tell me whether or not they are material or immaterial? I had the impression from the Bible that they were material...not invisible.

And by material, I do mean physical, even if "transparent".

And yes, I am really asking.

My response is that materiality itself is a strange term. Science tells us everything is vibrations and yet vibrations of what? We have 5 senses that tell us some perceptions of these vibrations depending what frequency they are receptive to. We have learned to extent the range through use of instruments. So where do you draw the line? If anything expresses itself in this materiality we inhabit then by definition I would say it is material and has substance even though you may not be able to see it, hear it, touch it, smell it or taste it. Does that help?

[TyRockwell]

Excuse me? First off, I received the Holy Spirit the day I was saved.

When a person is saved, he or she receives the indwelling Holy Spirit. It is basicly a union of the person's spirit with the Holy Spirit.

It is a much fuller relationship when one is "baptized in the Holy Spirit," otherwise known as being "filled with the Holy Spirit." This where cessationists blow off the importance for today of that exponentially larger relationship with the Holy Spirit. As a result, too many Christians have little to no understanding of the supernatural things of the Spirit one sees in the Bible.

On the bright side, millions of Christians have been entering into that overflowing dimension of the Holy Spirit. The power seen in the Gospels and Acts and the New Testament is being restored to the church.

(thus I "know Him")

The level of the knowledge of Him is greatly increased with the fullness to overflowing knowledge of Him that comes with being Filled with the Holy Spirit, which is a greater dimension that the indwelling Spirit.

Angels and demons were viable to people in the scriptures (how else would the authors describe them), capture me one on camera sometime at your next exorcist and we'll talk.

Until then, can someone else that isn't fascinated by Frank Peretti books talk to me about this? I am generally interested.And kind of an offshoot question, since we have inherent sinful nature, why do some people scapegoat demons (who also happen to obey God) as being necessary to facilitate our sinful actions?

If you are so resistant to the "Frank Paretti" level of knowledge of the Spirit, why expect to understand it?

Peace and Truth,
Ty