Where are the demons today?

[smaneck]

Whyever would you think Gnosticism died? Is it just because there is no equivalent to the Vatican?

By that I mean that there is no historical ties between whatever groups today might have similar teachings and the gnostics of early Christianity.

[smaneck]

Greetings Susan!

When you were speaking of Christianity's view of man's imagination, I was not sure if you were sharing what you thought, or merely sharing the mainstream Christian view.

Dear Viv,

I didn't say anything about Christianity whatsoever. I quoted from Genesis which is from the Jewish scriptures, the Tanakh and from Martin Buber who is a Jewish philosopher.

So while, as the Bible says, evil comes from the imaginations of men, so does good. In fact we are an admixture of good and evil, in various combinations.

If you read my entire post, you would have seen I made that point.

Susan was probably referring to the sects that rose up in the centuries following Jesus that the Catholic church persecuted and ultimately destroyed.

Yes, that's right.

But Eeset is right that presently those counting themselves as Gnostic is on the rise.

And these neo-gnostics like the New Age Movement in general has the same problem as the historical gnosticism. Because there is no locus of authority outside themselves they are bound to fragment endlessly.

warmest, Susan

[Eeset-Shadowgrl]

By that I mean that there is no historical ties between whatever groups today might have similar teachings and the gnostics of early Christianity.

All universal statements are wrong, including this one.

[Vivian]

Dear Viv,

I didn't say anything about Christianity whatsoever. I quoted from Genesis which is from the Jewish scriptures, the Tanakh and from Martin Buber who is a Jewish philosopher.



If you read my entire post, you would have seen I made that point.



Yes, that's right.



And these neo-gnostics like the New Age Movement in general has the same problem as the historical gnosticism. Because there is no locus of authority outside themselves they are bound to fragment endlessly.

warmest, Susan

Hi Susan!

Please forgive my obtuseness!

As I said I was not sure of your point, you seem to be simply presenting an array of differing thoughts - maybe it is just my ineptitude....

As far as past and present day Gnosticism, there is a wide divergence of people calling themselves 'Gnostic', or that were called Gnostic historically.

Actually Gnostic simply means knowledge of God through direct personal experience (Matthew 16:17), and so there are Gnostic Christians (Christians believing in direct experience of God), Gnostic Jews, etc - and then there are some traditions that are by nature Gnostic - Hindu, Buddhist, for example.

Since God is infinite and eternal, we would of course have an array of experiencing! And since people are drawn to people like themselves, we would expect to see differing sects rise up based on similar experiences of God.

God of course gives of Himself to those who seek - gives that which they can perceive and that which they need to hear, and so there is no end to the possible experiencing of God!

Unfortunately, beginning 'experiencers' will be myopic in their understanding, limiting what God is to what they personally experienced, but all in all, the multiplicity of Gnostic experiences and perspectives in not a sign of weakness or failure, but a sign of the infinite love and beauty of God. God can and will touch everyone who seeks in a way that is beneficial to their own personal journey with God.

Hence in the years following Jesus' incarnation, there was indeed a garden of 'gnostic sects', as there is today.

So I see the diversity - and lack of one power being able to force their own vision of God onto others - as something indeed quite positive for humanity and thank God each day for the freedom he has given us in him, and the spiritual freedom we have in this country to explore God, each in our own unique ways, according to our individual needs in time and space.

Hence, God is not creating a robotic army of sons, but a garden of sons! Each uniquely beautiful, each expressing a differing part of God.


Shalom.

Viv

[Eeset-Shadowgrl]

Shalom.

Viv

There is something that I would like to attempt to clarify. Gnosis or knowledge in direct experience with God can never by its very nature foster a sect as the western mind categorizes concepts. There can be gatherings of people with those experiences and there can be writings by individuals but there can never be a creed of knowledge or gnosis. I have seen much written from an educational perspective and it mises the mark because it does not accept that gnosis is something entirely different than "belief" or "faith". In fact the western translation of gnosis to mean knowledge is in itself misleading. Its true character can better be stated as understanding through experience. As to linkages... they are unbroken but will not be found in organizations or material constructs or social "boxes". Either a person has understanding directly through experience or they don't. Let me give you a rather simplistic example.---->

Do you understand through experience the reality of burning your finger by accidently touching a hot stove burner? If you do and someone else shares that they burnt their finger on a hot stove burner both know exactly what each other understands even though the experiences may have varried in many ways. Someone could even attempt to author a creed about that experience but no words would adequately capture the understandings. No belief or faith is necessary. Those who have the experience are devoid of beliefs about it. They have gnosis.

Gnosis used to refer to experiences with God by souls manifesting in human bodies is documented, however inadequately, in all religious works. It is also connected without beginning and without end across all of what we call time. Someone who has no such experience has neither the understanding nor the insight to capture even a weak picture of the topic. That I understand.

Vaya con Dias.
Eeset

[Vivian]

Well said, Eeset.

Just to be fair though, there are 'sects' or groups of people forming distinct units within larger groups by virtue of certain refinements or distinctions of belief or practice who call themselves Gnostic, because they teach distinctive - yet all at the heart are the same - 'hows' of experiencing God.

How to invoke the Holy Spirit, how to invite the divine angels of God into our presence.

[And as a note - this sort of practice was taught by Jesus as recorded in the last supper and in the period of time leading up to the Pentecost: And when they had entered, they went up into the upper room where they were staying: Peter, James, John, and Andrew; Philip and Thomas; Bartholomew and Matthew; James the son of Alphaeus and Simon the Zealot; and Judas the son of James. 14 These all continued with one accord in prayer and supplication, with the women and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with His brothers. ]

Where two or more are gathered in my Name, there I will be also.

The rituals of Catholicism are remnants of these rituals, but no longer having the Light and Power that they had in the centuries following Christ. [The Orthodox Churches, from what I understand, still use the rituals as intended.]

These Gnostic groups usually do not call themselves Gnostic, but Gnostic Christian (being a sect of Christianity), or Gnostic Kaballah (being a sect of Kaballah), and there are those who do not even use the term 'Gnostic' at all although they fit into the same description.

And for those reading this screaming pagan! or heretic! or even satanic! might I remind that Jesus did not instruct us to sit around and wait for him or watch him do all the work, but called us to actively follow him, walk as he did, to actively seek and knock - teaching his disciples rituals just for this purpose. (baptism, eucharist, etc.)

The gnostic groups what I am speaking of actively practice these rituals in Power and Light and Love.

[Note: there are many groups calling themselves gnostic, that do not have the Power to invoke Christ, being more just intellectual groups, with having ideas of spiritual things instead of having the things themselves. And as Eeset offered, you cannot really describe these experiences to those who have not yet sought after them. Experiencing God cannot fit into intellectual models. Hence they are referred to as gnosis. However, gnosis is the foundation of true faith. ]


Shalom.

Viv

[barnasha]

Experiencing God cannot fit into intellectual models. Hence they are referred to as gnosis. However, gnosis is the foundation of true faith.

gnosis literally means a kind of intuitive "self" knowledge, not as much knowing ourselves as much as knowing for ourselves... but the latter is like the former.

and where did jesus say the kingdom of heaven "is" ?

[Vivian]

gnosis literally means a kind of intuitive "self" knowledge, not as much knowing ourselves as much as knowing for ourselves... but the latter is like the former.

and where did jesus say the kingdom of heaven "is" ?

Hi barnasha!

I imagine there are multiple understandings of the meaning of gnosis! I mean on Tweb, Gnosticism is said to refer to those who think "matter is evil".

But I do have to thank you, for I see the dictionary meaning of gnosis is intuitive knowledge of the spiritual. And intuitive means the act or faculty of knowing or sensing without the use of rational processes; immediate cognition.

This alludes to something key - that the recognition of a spiritual experience does not come by way of rational reasoning or mundane sensing. It comes from a knowing that cannot be explained. A knowing deep within us.

When I experienced God for the first time, every cell of my being came alive, for I knew Him in my inner most parts.

Immediate cognition.

The understanding of gnosis held by those whom I know experiencing gnosis, speaks of it like the rays of light coming forth from the sun.

Christ is the Sun, and His Rays of Light are gnosis. Gnosis then is the Light of Christ.

So in essence, gnosis is something external to us, something outside of us that we experience, but it is also something within us - Christ within us.

And when the two meet, it is bliss. The Lover meeting her Beloved.

Oh my. This is so off topic. My apologies Eeset.

Shalom.

Viv

[Eeset-Shadowgrl]

Hi barnasha!

Oh my. This is so off topic. My apologies Eeset.

Shalom.

Viv

Off topic? hmmm. Maybe not. Experiencing hence understanding spans all realms including seeing and speaking with demons which was the original question. Those without the experience can offer conjecture, opinions, intellectual writhings but they lack the understanding. The law provides time and within that experiences flow. I doubt anyone would scoff at the truth of experiences changing lack of comprehension into understanding.

In response to Susan's question Jesus said heaven is within. Let those who have ears hear and those with eyes see. Obviously the truth is also that the blind and deaf will neither see nor hear. Yet always remember that the lame will walk and the blind will see and the deaf will hear. All within God's will.

Blessings

[barnasha]

Hi barnasha!

I imagine there are multiple understandings of the meaning of gnosis! I mean on Tweb, Gnosticism is said to refer to those who think "matter is evil".

But I do have to thank you, for I see the dictionary meaning of gnosis is intuitive knowledge of the spiritual. And intuitive means the act or faculty of knowing or sensing without the use of rational processes; immediate cognition.

This alludes to something key - that the recognition of a spiritual experience does not come by way of rational reasoning or mundane sensing. It comes from a knowing that cannot be explained. A knowing deep within us.

When I experienced God for the first time, every cell of my being came alive, for I knew Him in my inner most parts.

Immediate cognition.

The understanding of gnosis held by those whom I know experiencing gnosis, speaks of it like the rays of light coming forth from the sun.

Christ is the Sun, and His Rays of Light are gnosis. Gnosis then is the Light of Christ.

So in essence, gnosis is something external to us, something outside of us that we experience, but it is also something within us - Christ within us.

And when the two meet, it is bliss. The Lover meeting her Beloved.

Oh my. This is so off topic. My apologies Eeset.

Shalom.

Viv

Jesus said do not seek the kingdom of heaven outside of ourselves, as it is within us. Your experience demonstrates this first hand. You did a good job trying to convey it in words.

Remember how it is said we are made in the image of God?

When Adam transcends himself and his failing, he finds himself having made his way back into the Garden of Bliss ("eden" in hebrew), even if it be for a moment.

This "knowing" is not intellectual, it is intuitive, it is spiritual.

As such we are taught that we must become like babes, to be "reborn" in the "spirit", to cast away the intellectual and logical and coincide with the purely cosmic and spiritual.

Babies do not use worldly logic, not before their indoctrination into 'the world', AKA the "terrible twos". I'd throw a temper tantrum, too, if i was forced to think in such a lowly manner, so contrary to the nature of Christ.

[Vivian]

Off topic? hmmm. Maybe not. Experiencing hence understanding spans all realms including seeing and speaking with demons which was the original question. Those without the experience can offer conjecture, opinions, intellectual writhings but they lack the understanding. The law provides time and within that experiences flow. I doubt anyone would scoff at the truth of experiences changing lack of comprehension into understanding.

Yeah, they are interconnected topics, for it is in seeing the light that we are able to see the shadows within the light, or the demons.

And carrying this further, in conjunction with what both you and barnasha are clarifying - the kingdom is indeed within us. The infinite play of light and shadow is within us. And, if it is within us, then it must also be within all others around us. In fact, the kingdom is within all of physical creation!

And so the infinite play of light and shadow can be found within just as it can be found without.

The key to seeing the kingdom, though, the key to eventually entering into the kingdom, is seeing it first within ourselves. In this way, blaming external forces or satans is detrimental to our journey.

This verity, it appears, at least to me, is at the root of Duncan's conclusions regarding there being no external satan.

We must first see the demons [demons meaning those parts of us which work against the will of God] in ourselves, before we can see the demons outside of us. We must first see ourselves as Paul saw himself in Romans 7. This is what happens with true belief in the only begotten Son (John 3:16). We come to the light so that we can see the demons within ourselves. (John 3:20-21)

This is the first step in becoming aware of the kingdom within - within ourselves and within all of creation.

And so the meeting of the Lover and the Beloved - the gnosis or light of Christ within us and the gnosis or light of Christ outside of us, occurs when the highest within ourselves and the highest in creation come together in bliss. But this cannot happen until our spiritual eyes and ears have developed - we first being able to see the demons, the antichrist, the beast, within ourselves.

And barnasha, I much liked your analogy to babies and the terrible twos. Taking this concept further, in forcing our children to function according to the world, against their Christ - inbred nature, we can gain a greater insight into the rebellion of teens, and how to best serve our children in all these stages of life.


Shalom.

Viv

[LambofElohim]

Greetings,

The first thing to know about demons is that there are different kinds. There are the demons that are the darkness that is evil and the demons that are the light that is darkness and are more evil than the evil demons.

The demons that are the darkness that is evil are those that give man diseases and possess man's flesh with lasciviousness, murder, adulteries, wrath, strife, envies, drunkenness, sloth, divisions, heresies and pride.

The demons that are the light that is darkness is that evil that gives man grace, mercy, faith, enlightenment, illumination, inner-self exploration, awareness, spirituality and a sense of religious value.

These demons have charge over the darkness that is evil, These demons use their authority over them to appear to be of a good nature; when in all actuality they use their evil influence as good creating a different kind of evil. Their cunning leads men to believe that evil can be good and good can be evil.

The first time one of these demons of the light that is darkness manifested himself to man was recorded in Genesis 15 and that man was Abram. That demon of the light that is darkness is referred to as "the LORD" in the Old Testament. That demon of the light that is darkness was Lucifer, the King Demon of all demons. He is the Lord over all demons of light and darkness. The demon in charge of the darkness that is evil is Satan. He is Lucifer's right hand aide in his quest to dethrone "God".

In the New Testament all diseases and infirmities were caused by demons that are the darkness that is evil. Today these same demons afflict man with the same diseases, but man found a way just to give these demon's diseases names and feed them pills to their heart's content. Allowing that flesh to be under their control; Christian or not.

I like what one of the posters said, "The greatest trick the devil ever pulled off was getting man not to believe he exists."

He did it by making man think he was "God"!

The Brother of the Jesus Christ that the only true God hast sent
Reverend Carlton

[Eeset-Shadowgrl]

Greetings,

The first thing to know about demons is that there are different kinds. There are the demons that are the darkness that is evil and the demons that are the light that is darkness and are more evil than the evil demons.

The demons that are the darkness that is evil are those that give man diseases and possess man's flesh with lasciviousness, murder, adulteries, wrath, strife, envies, drunkenness, sloth, divisions, heresies and pride.

The demons that are the light that is darkness is that evil that gives man grace, mercy, faith, enlightenment, illumination, inner-self exploration, awareness, spirituality and a sense of religious value.

These demons have charge over the darkness that is evil, These demons use their authority over them to appear to be of a good nature; when in all actuality they use their evil influence as good creating a different kind of evil. Their cunning leads men to believe that evil can be good and good can be evil.

The first time one of these demons of the light that is darkness manifested himself to man was recorded in Genesis 15 and that man was Abram. That demon of the light that is darkness is referred to as "the LORD" in the Old Testament. That demon of the light that is darkness was Lucifer, the King Demon of all demons. He is the Lord over all demons of light and darkness. The demon in charge of the darkness that is evil is Satan. He is Lucifer's right hand aide in his quest to dethrone "God".

In the New Testament all diseases and infirmities were caused by demons that are the darkness that is evil. Today these same demons afflict man with the same diseases, but man found a way just to give these demon's diseases names and feed them pills to their heart's content. Allowing that flesh to be under their control; Christian or not.

I like what one of the posters said, "The greatest trick the devil ever pulled off was getting man not to believe he exists."

He did it by making man think he was "God"!

The Brother of the Jesus Christ that the only true God hast sent
Reverend Carlton

Thank you Reverend. Which can you see and cast out?

[LambofElohim]

Greetings,

All demons, light and darkness can be cast out and taken authority over by The Word, Elohim. The thing is that first you have to just know that Elohim is "God" and the Father of Jesus Christ and that Elohim Himself became His flesh to prepare Him to someday return to the earth. The very first time He was on the earth as "Jesus Christ" as Himself was when He was on a stake and only about ten minutes or so. Before that He was all "God" and not "Jesus Christ" as Himself with only the Spirit of God in Him as man thinks.

Even those demons of the light that is darkness are subject to The Word. The demons that can be visible that are the darkness that is evil and those that receive the so-called gift of visualizing them that is given to them by the light that is darkness. Man usually will not see the light that is darkness within someone, because most everyone has this light that is darkness in them thanks to Paul and the church of Israel. They will make themselves visible to those whom they choose to and give divine prophecies as to be from "God" for Lucifer or he himself will appear and even say he is "Jesus" or as he and Gabriel did to Joseph Smith saying they were both "God" and the "Lamb of God" Lucifer as God and Gabriel as the Lamb of God. Lucifer did all the talking and Gabriel stood silent. One thing that the devil cannot do is say he is "Jesus Christ" or the "Lamb of God". Demons that man acquired will make a person say they are "Jesus Christ" or even think it, but the devil could not say, "This is Jesus Christ speaking with you" he can only say, "This is Jesus speaking with you".

It actually is all inside of the eyes. The bigger and blacker the eye pupils the more evil is present within someone; both the light that is darkness and the darkness that is evil. I have been to Apostolic churches in where they pound on the walls speaking a tongue known as Rehoboth. The robodo shundai machine gun tongues. They have their eyes closed or members are praying head in their arms kneeling in front of their chairs facing them. I actually tapped one of them on the shoulder while they were and she jumped out of her skin as if she was shocked and when she looked at me all I could see was big black holes covering her iris. I went up to the altar with the men, but never closed my eyes. I spoke against what they were praying for him. As I was with muy hands raised pointing up with my index fingers; the pastor came up and put his hand on top of my head and started the machine gun tongues.

As soon as he put his hand on my head it shook and kept shaking more and more as he continued. All I did was keep my eyes open and hands up and said things like, "You can try all you want; you have no authority over me", "Look you are shaking" and "You will not interfere with me keeping this man from the Holy Ghost". I prevailed and nothing happened to the man being pray over with everyone's hands on him; no tongues no trembling. The man looked at me like, "Why didn't I feel anything? I just told him, "The best thing happened to you, because what they were trying to do was not good". Afterward the pastor walked away speechless for a few seconds and then began tonguing it again.

The whole service was about him having long hair at once, smoking and dealing marijuana at one time, partying and drinking at one time. Then he looked specifically at me and said these things can make someone pervert the Word of God and went on to basically tell his congregation to avoid me without directly saying it. Then he went on to the "but Jesus saved me and the Holy Ghost opened my eyes to what I was doing and I became a pastor. Uh BS, "Jesus" didn't save him the devil did so he would naively do his bidding as did Paul. I do not deal, but I will help a friend who needs some and I smoke when it is offered. I usually do not obtain much for myself, but still even marijuana has nothing to do with just seeing, hearing and understanding The Truth about the bible. It was there before I smoked and after and is still there; you just have to be smarter than a fourth grader. Right now all these rooms are full of third graders debating over whose dad and mom are the best; when none of theirs are, but My Father is Elohim and My Brother is "Jesus Christ the Lamb of Elohim; that I will debate all day.

After that I was told I could not return to their church...funny? I thought anyone can go into a church any time they want? This church has a twisted theology and believes that only women can pray with women and men with men. No long hairs, women have to wear long dresses and can have no make-up. The pastor acts like a cult leader and has everyone looking up to him as a Christ sort of figure.

Elohim, The Word even above that of the words "Jesus Christ". The thing is, that it is the darkness that is evil that the name "Jesus" has authority over because Lucifer made himself "Jesus" to say "Jesus Christ" only allows the devil to become him.

If you want an example of what to say? Look the person in the eyes and begin to say, "I adjure thee by Elohim and I rebuke thee." Then say, "I command thee by Elohim to tell me who you are." Then say, "In the name of Elohim and by The Word...depart from this flesh!...Go now (name)!"

Something like that, but the thing is that the person has to be totally willing to be delivered, because if they are not they will only anger them as they desire to stay. If a person is not will to participate they will only become irritated by The Word and use the flesh to put up a fight until the end. This is where saying the above five or six times with a bunch of puke and violence comes in. If the person wants them out and tells them before to obey The Word of God than they will depart quickly without any puke or violence.

I person can do the same thing with themselves by looking into a mirror eye to eye, but of course you have to want them out. If I was everyone that had the Holy Ghost or some Holy Spirit in them I would be afraid...very afraid!

Hope this helps shed some of the True Light upon the light that is darkness and darkness that is evil.

The Brother of the Jesus Christ that the only true God hast sent
Reverend Carlton

[Eeset-Shadowgrl]

Reverend that is a very interesting reply. My brother Jesus has told me not to quibble over insignificant things such as whether wine or grape juice is use for communion. You, however, discussed many things but gave me no direct answer. My question was which demons can you see and cast out. Are you saying that you can see all demons in any person? Are you saying that you can cast out none (unless the person possessed sincerely wants them cast out)?