Where are the demons today?

[FredFlanders]

Excuse me? First off, I received the Holy Spirit the day I was saved. (thus I "know Him") Secondly, I am not trying to "solve" these questions, I am just asking. I understand God fairly well I think, which is why I asked about the rest of it. I am under the impression that outside of God, everything He created, including heaven and it's occupants are material in some fashion. Secondly, I have faith and unconditional acceptance and obedience (best I can) to God and His Word...however, I think don't think that some sort of sensible reading of the Scriptures isn't totally out of line either.

I thought the whole idea of angels and demons swinging swords at each other in some invisible war swirling around our heads was for children. I believe in angels and demons, but I don't believe that they are quite as fanciful as apparently other people do. And I don't see them as being particularly active today like they were coming to the end of the canon.

Angels and demons were viable to people in the scriptures (how else would the authors describe them), capture me one on camera sometime at your next exorcist and we'll talk.

Until then, can someone else that isn't fascinated by Frank Peretti books talk to me about this? I am generally interested.And kind of an offshoot question, since we have inherent sinful nature, why do some people scapegoat demons (who also happen to obey God) as being necessary to facilitate our sinful actions?

No Trusty by the sounds of it you have not yet received the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is something you seek earnestly after and not some thing you automatically get because you believe in Jesus.

Here are some NT scriptures where people believed in God yet not received the Holy Spirit until the power had come upon them.
Acts 8; Philip went to Samaria to preach Christ unto them. The earnestly took heed to what Philip spoke and the miracles he did casting out demons and healing the sick. They were baptised in the name of Jesus. Yet none had received the Holy Spirit. So Peter and John were sent and they lay their hands on them and they received the Holy Ghost.
Acts 10; Cornelius was a devout man that feared God withal his house, gave to the poor and prayed to God always. Yet Cornelius had not received the Holy Spirit until Peter spoke to him about how God had anointed Jesus with the Holy Spirit and power. Then the same Holy Spirit that fell on Jesus and the Hebrews fell on Cornelius and his household.
Acts 19; Paul met disciples at Ephesus which believed and had been baptised yet hadn’t received the Holy Spirit. So Paul laid his hands upon them and they received the Holy Spirit.
When the Holy Spirit comes upon believers they not only “speak in tongues” but receive power to preach the Gospel, heal the sick and cast out demons. Acts 1 v 8 & Mark 16 v 16-20.

Demon spirits are invisible. You are looking for visible evidence with a camera and this will not happen for you. You are looking for the evidence in a similar way about the Holy Spirit and again this will not happen as as the Holy Spirit works by faith first, then you will see the evidence.

[Eeset-Shadowgrl]

Does he still hit the drink hard? If he does, you can try to help him.

I am not sure for the moment. He went to North Carolina to work a job with a friend at a sawmill. I am relying on God and I have the assurance that he will soon turn to Jesus. I did my part in having him escort me to church on a few occasions and although he heaped scorn on the experience I know it reached him. I counsel myself to be very patient.

[Eeset-Shadowgrl]

No Trusty by the sounds of it you have not yet received the Holy Spirit.

This seems to me to be negative conjecture. What reaction do you expect from someone so accused?

Demon spirits are invisible. You are looking for visible evidence with a camera and this will not happen for you. You are looking for the evidence in a similar way about the Holy Spirit and again this will not happen as as the Holy Spirit works by faith first, then you will see the evidence.

I would say visible evidence can be seen easily when a demon is cast out. In fact doesn't the Bible state that "they came and saw"? As to a camera actually capturing a picture of a demon I would say it is not impossible just because it has yet to be done. Maybe advances in equipment and film sensitivity to "invisible" frequencies such as infrared will accomplish what we now fail to believe can be done.

[T-Shirt Ninja]

No Trusty by the sounds of it you have not yet received the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is something you seek earnestly after and not some thing you automatically get because you believe in Jesus.

I have one word for what you just described: heresy!

You don't "get" the Holy Spirit at a later point after you become saved. You receive the Holy Spirit upon salvation. Check out Romans 8:9. If you say that Trusty doesn't have the Holy Spirit, what you are basically declaring is that he's not saved at all. You can't be saved and NOT have the Holy Spirit. That's unbiblical. Titus 3:5-6 makes it quite clear that the Holy Spirit plays a crucial role in the regeneration of the believer.

[TyRockwell]

I have one word for what you just described: heresy!

You don't "get" the Holy Spirit at a later point after you become saved. You receive the Holy Spirit upon salvation. Check out Romans 8:9. If you say that Trusty doesn't have the Holy Spirit, what you are basically declaring is that he's not saved at all. You can't be saved and NOT have the Holy Spirit. That's unbiblical. Titus 3:5-6 makes it quite clear that the Holy Spirit plays a crucial role in the regeneration of the believer.

You must have not read posts #15 and #16.
You got the "indwelling" Holy Spirit at salvation. He regenerates you at that time, but it is not the same as being FILLED with the Holy Spirit. No one is saying the indwelling Holy Spirit isn't enough for salvation.

[Binkster]

Two main entry point can be through unforgiveness and bitterness, also when some one has been through traumatic events such as death or sexual assault for example.
They can dwell in Christians.

Not to be confused with, "Christians CANNOT be possessed."

They dwell in your flesh and not in your Spirit and can take the form of physical and mental sickness. For example depression is demonic spirit that can cast out.

There is a difference between Satan attacking people, causing them to get depressed, and Clinical Depression. Not all depression is of Satan.

Because a Christian has a demon does not mean they are not saved but the purpose of the demon is to get the Christian believer to deny Christ and die.

What do you mean by Christians having a demon? Christians have the Holy Spirit, therefore, they have no demons in them (possessing them).

It is important when Christians are attacked by demons(which we all are) is to walk in the Word of God, be repentant and cast the demon out by the blood of Jesus. Some are stronger than others and will require much prayer, seeking and fasting to God. Demons hate Christ and His Blood and will flee when cast out by these words. This gift is given to believers as we read in Mark 16 v 16-18.
Many false religions deny the power and gifts of God but demons are real and so is sickness but can be overcome and cast out by the Blood of Jesus.

I don't think this is to be taken as lightly as it is worded either. Not to underestimate what you have done, but it is a lot more dangerous than you make it sound. No one should open up a door to demons (the spiritual) world at all in the first place. "Casting out demons" shouldn't be a hobby per se. Although Jesus is stronger than anything, Satan and the Spiritual world is much stronger than us, and although people make think they are prepared, they may not be.

I only wanted to state that for people who may be reading this thread and aren't familiar with this subject....

[Binkster]

I guess demons hang around charismatic, pentecostal, and catholic folks waiting to get tossed out of someone...

Can any demon hunters tell me whether or not they are material or immaterial? I had the impression from the Bible that they were material...not invisible.

And by material, I do mean physical, even if "transparent".

And yes, I am really asking.

Not exactly sure how to answer that, but from experience, I know that demons are not invisible. I have never seen an angel though, only felt the presence of them- sounds kinda weird, but it really was more of the presence of angles than God.....well at least in that experience....of course I have felt the presence of God many times before.

EDIT: Demons are everywhere. And people who commit their lives to Satan are in most churches-working to divide the church. However, they most definitely are found more so, (or maybe only) in churches with false doctrine.

[Dispen4ever]

You got the "indwelling" Holy Spirit at salvation. He regenerates you at that time, but it is not the same as being FILLED with the Holy Spirit. No one is saying the indwelling Holy Spirit isn't enough for salvation.]

Help me out here. Are you saying that the filling of the Holy Spirit is a separate and subsequent one-time event? Receiving the Holy Spirit obviously occurs at the moment of salvation, as you have indicated. Being FILLED with the Holy Spirit occurs precisely at that moment. We then drift away from that initial JOY, that initial BLESSING. We get "run down" spiritually, so to speak. Each morning pray to be FILLED with the Holy Spirit. It is not like He went away, it is that He is operating at a diminished level due to one's straying, one's drifting from the glory of the born-again, salvation experience. Before you get out of bed say "LORD! Fill me to the brim! Let me walk in your footsteps today!"

;-)

[TyRockwell]

Help me out here. Are you saying that the filling of the Holy Spirit is a separate and subsequent one-time event?

Being FILLED with the Spirit is a powerful overflowing dimension of the Holy Spirit much more than the indwelling presense of Him than one has when saved. It is initially a one-time experience, but the believer can grow into greater anointing. The Spirit-filled believer can be refilled over again many times. Sometimes you'll get a refreshening refilling after much power and the release of the Holy Spirit's power out of you while ministering.

Receiving the Holy Spirit obviously occurs at the moment of salvation, as you have indicated. Being FILLED with the Holy Spirit occurs precisely at that moment.

Not always. Many saved people are not filled to overflowing at salvation. It depends on the ministry's teaching and the expectation of the minister and the person being saved. If there is no request or prayer at that time for the convert to be filled to overflowing by the Holy Spirit, it probably will not happen. Cessationist congregations don't teach it or expect it, so they only get what they expect, a ticket to heaven instead of hell.

We then drift away from that initial JOY, that initial BLESSING. We get "run down" spiritually, so to speak. Each morning pray to be FILLED with the Holy Spirit. It is not like He went away, it is that He is operating at a diminished level due to one's straying, one's drifting from the glory of the born-again, salvation experience. Before you get out of bed say "LORD! Fill me to the brim! Let me walk in your footsteps today!"

;-)

That is always a good idea.

[Eeset-Shadowgrl]

Ty, moving back to demons what is your perspective on Mark 1:34 where Jesus cast out many demons but did not allow the demons to speak because they knew him?

I accept that Jesus has that power but my question is what if he had not forbade them from speaking? Do demons have power of speech separate from the person they possess or is that a reference to forbidding them from speaking while in possession of a person?

[Manwë Súlimo]

Ty, moving back to demons what is your perspective on Mark 1:34 where Jesus cast out many demons but did not allow the demons to speak because they knew him?

I accept that Jesus has that power but my question is what if he had not forbade them from speaking? Do demons have power of speech separate from the person they possess or is that a reference to forbidding them from speaking while in possession of a person?

I don't have a good answer for this other than Jesus ideally didn't want his true identity known at this point.

[Berean Todd]

Demons are still very much alive and well in the world around us, it's just that most "modern intellectual" types would of course deny them. They are all around, they still possess people and they still work great evil in the world.

http://www.thesonofhope.com/

Read some of the testimonies on that site - that is the web site for David Berkowitz. (the Son of Sam killer) He has long told his story, and I absolutely believe he was demon possessed back in the day.

[Johnny MacManky]

Trusty,
You cannot understand this because it is revealed by the Holy Spirit. . . .

No Trusty by the sounds of it you have not yet received the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is something you seek earnestly after and not some thing you automatically get because you believe in Jesus. . . .

Moderated By: Johnny

Fred, Please refrain from questioning another's experience of the Holy Spirit.

Everyone else, if you wish to discuss the doctrinal differences between receiving the Holy Spirit and being filled or baptised with the Holy Spirit, please do so in another thread and in such a manner that does not personalise the matter towards another's personal experience.

***If you wish to take issue with this notice DO NOT do so in this thread.***
Contact the forum moderator or an administrator in Private Message or email instead. If you feel you must publically complain or whine, please take it to the Psychotherapy Room unless told otherwise.

[TyRockwell]

Ty, moving back to demons what is your perspective on Mark 1:34 where Jesus cast out many demons but did not allow the demons to speak because they knew him?

I accept that Jesus has that power but my question is what if he had not forbade them from speaking?

Jesus forbade them to speak after they did speak, because they would cry out who Jesus was, the "Holy One of God," or "The Son of God" and "Are you here to torment us before the time?"
Jesus commanded them to be silent, and come out of the possessed person. He did not want people to believe in Him because of the testimony of demons as to Whom He is.

Do demons have power of speech separate from the person they possess or is that a reference to forbidding them from speaking while in possession of a person?

In my experience, demons do not have their own ability to speak. They use the vocal abilities of the one they possess, until they are commanded not to speak. They could still cause the person to scream and convulse before they depart from the person.

[Eeset-Shadowgrl]

Jesus forbade them to speak after they did speak, because they would cry out who Jesus was, the "Holy One of God," or "The Son of God" and "Are you here to torment us before the time?"
Jesus commanded them to be silent, and come out of the possessed person. He did not want people to believe in Him because of the testimony of demons as to Whom He is..

Interesting. In Luke 4:41 we see the same account with a slight variation which seems to confirm what you assert. There demons came out of many and spoke. Jesus then rebuked them and did not allow them to speak. I cannot tell from the word 'them' whether it refers to the many from whom demons fled or the demons. I also wonder if your interpretation about believing because of the words of demons is correct. I read it a bit differently. If you continue through the rest of chapter 4 in Luke you see that Jesus stated his purpose for being sent is to preach the kingdom of God to many places. I read that as not his sole purpose but one of the facets or parts of his purpose. I seems to me that he knew it was not time for word to spread (as it would have) that he is the Christ. So in a sense I guess that parallels your understanding. He knew that by his words and his works people would need to believe in him and not by the screams of the tormented and it was not yet time. Its a duality if you will. Time and method are both intertwined. Much later in his ministry he tells his own apostles that if they do not believe his words they should believe on him because of his works. It is also interesting in John 4:42 that many Samaritans believed Jesus is the Christ and Savior of the world solely because of his words. But just a bit later, in John 4:48, Jesus impugns those in Cana of Galilee for requiring signs and wonders to believe.

Returning to demons I would ask how they were confronted in Scripture by the disciples after Jesus had walked among them (following his ascension).