Where are the demons today?

[Eeset-Shadowgrl]

Try the word devils Eeset.

Thanks Alan. Sure enough that brings about 50 citations with most being from the NT. How silly of me not to make that link.

[Eeset-Shadowgrl]

I'm still curious what parts of the Bible you believe speak to the concept of Christians being possessed by demons, or demons being passed down through ancestry. I can't think of any offhand.

Yes. I would like to see this also. Just for the record I have not been sick in decades and when friends shy from a hug because they have the "flu" or some malaise I always tell them not to worry about it and hug them anyway. I'm sure that must sound strange. I can offer no other explanation than being protected. I have never been a "nut" about my lifestyle or exercise or vitamins. I have always believed in the words of Jesus when he explained how it is not what you put into your mouth that defiles you but rather what comes out of it for that which comes out is from the heart. I do not believe it is our cognitive mind that God cares about but rather the harmony we have in love of Him with all our heart, mind and soul and the love we have for others. That is also why it means little to me if another person holds with cognitive alignment to a "church" different from my own. No matter what the mind sees as correct or incorrect about creeds if the individual truly seeks to do the will of the father I cheer them on. That is not to say that Scripture may or may not be interpreted correctly by one creed rather than another. It is simply to say that God works through many means and people grow and change over time. I love Scripture but do not consider myself expert in divination of all passages. I am after all a sinner who but for the blood of Christ would roast in hell. I count myself greater than no one. I help where I can in service to others but I try my best not to cast stones because I don't trust my aim with the plank that remains in my eye.

I pray that my ramble is accepted by all in the spirit of love that I offer it with. It just sort of auto-typed itself once I started in on this reply.

[Alan3838]

Thanks Alan. Sure enough that brings about 50 citations with most being from the NT. How silly of me not to make that link.

Your welcome.

[FredFlanders]

I have never been made to believe that demons manifest as seen in Hollywood.

You still didn't answer my question.

Define "having demons." unless all of that was your definition...

I understand all of the above, although I do somewhat disagree with the demon/illness area. Not all sickness is from demons, and although a parents life (involvement with sin) may affect their children's lives, I do not think that because a parent, or grandparent, or great-grand parent, had cancer, that it was passed down through demons......and all family will have cancer until the demon is cast out!!!

It sounds to me like you are leaving out the middle part, and this is your train of thought, demons and/or satan tempts people> people fall into temptation> people sin> people's sin (drug addiction) causes people to get ill.....so take the first thing, demons/satan, and the last thing, illness, and put them together, and you have demons cause people to get ill.

If I go running, fall, and break my leg, is that because a demon tripped me? Or is that because my parents sinned-everyone sins, Im not going to be punished or held accountable for what my parents did, or for what demons attacked them. God is just.

And, really, I am still not sure what you mean by "having demons."

Do you mean demons are attacking people?

Or demons are possessing people?

I do mean both attacking and possessing. I have a busy couple a days a head so I will get back to you soon, as many other questions have also been asked and I would like to give more detail than I have time for now.

[FredFlanders]

Binkster, Rberman, Eeset,
Demons, attack and can inhabit Christians,God is a Spirit and so is Satan and his Demons. We can allow demons into our flesh, (bodies/mind) as easily as we allow our bodies to breath, hear and see objects.
Before you judge what I state you need to read the full thread and I am using the OKJ bible.
The Holy Spirit has revealed to me so much on the subject I could write a book on it but God has already done this through the Bible. So I will lead you into it.
God gave man dominion over the earth but not Satan, so the only way Satan can have authority on earth is through mankind.
God is a Spirit and so is Satan and his demons. The Bible refers to demons in most cases as “spirits”
Some demons are stronger that others and all have different functions, ranks or manifestations. Eph 6 v 12.
One type of demon can attack you by verbal or physical abuse. When we retaliate the same way then we have possessed the demon. God's answer has always been to retaliate with love.
The same example was with King Saul and David. King Saul gave heed to the spirit of jealousy which attracted other spirits such as hate and murderous spirits. But David retaliated with love toward King Saul. Even when David was tempted by the devil to kill King Saul he declined and continued to love King Saul. 1 Sam 16 v 14-23, 18 v 10, 19 v 9.
Ephesians 4 & 5 talks about unclean spirits (demons) that were in some members of the Church and to rebuke them and turn to God's love. Other wise you were putting a foot in the door to allow more demons to inhabit you.
I have no doubt many demons depart when we become Spirit Filled but may be not all as we read in Ephesians 4 & 5 many do not.
James 4 will tell us the devil is among the members as there were fights and quarrels. The Church was being told to resist the devil (and show God's love) and he will flee from you.
Luke 9 v 55 Jesus told James and Peter that “You do not know what spirit you come from.”
Matt 10 talks about casting out unclean spirits.
Prov 16 v 18 talks about a haughty spirit.
Mic 2 v 11 talks about a spirit of false hood.
My experience is when the demons leave so do many sicknesses.
Eg. A Spirit filled grandmother had severe arthritis. After speaking to her we found that she had unforgiveness to her alcoholic husband. After she went though repentance and forgiveness to her husband the arthritis immediately left. Unforgiveness is demon and will attract many other demonic spirits with it such as hate, stubbornness, disobedience etc.
Eg. Another different spirit was with another young mother. Every time we prayed in the Spirit the spirit would manifest like you would see on The Exorcist Movie. Going back into her history she had been raped and sexually abused buy her father. Again over a period of time, as these spirits were very strong she got full deliverance from these demons.
Eg. I have a work colleague who with his wife attends a traditional Christian Church but when ever the Cup of Wine comes to her at communion she trembles and leaves the room in fear and cannot drink the cup. After speaking to her husband I am told that many years ago when she was in hospital she was sexually abused by a staff member. I have no doubt demons entered at this point and that is the reason she cannot take the cup as it is the demons that cause her to tremble and be in fear. As the church culture is not to talk about demons because of the fear factor nothing has been done. I have told them I can help them in this matter but are declining at the moment because they hate talking about demons. Yet as Spirit filled Christians we should have no fear of demons as God has given us authority over them through Christ Jesus.
Families where there is much physical and verbal abuse will attract demons to them selves and their children and if not put under control will allow stronger and more destructive demons to come.

Regarding being passed down from generation to generation.
Ex 20 v 5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them (other gods), nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
Here God states the iniquities would be passed down and yes it is conditional that the children hate or do not obey God. I do not doubt that demons visit these iniquities on us and are ready and waiting when we slip up in ignorance of God's word and that is why we are told in Eph 5 v 11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
12For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
13Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
14Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;
15And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
16Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.
17And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
18Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;

[Binkster]

Binkster, Rberman, Eeset,
Demons, attack and can inhabit Christians,God is a Spirit and so is Satan and his Demons.

Demons do attack Christians, however they do not inhabit them. Christians are filled with the Holy Spirit- why would the Holy Spirit allow a demon to enter into the same person it is indwelling. Furthermore, why would God allow Satan or a demon to enter into his children at all in the first place?

Jesus lives in your heart, he is not going to allow Satan to live there too.

Also, demons attack the spirit, not the flesh.

We can allow demons into our flesh, (bodies/mind) as easily as we allow our bodies to breath, hear and see objects.

There is a difference between being possessed and being attacked by a demon. To be possessed, is for a demon to have direct control over the body and mind-and for people to have none. When we, Christians and non-Christians are attacked, it is demons tempting us.

So again, why would God allow a demon to have direct control over his Child? The very one he gave his only son to die for?

The Holy Spirit has revealed to me so much on the subject I could write a book on it

Im not questioning your salvation by any means, but, I will not hesitate to say that the Holy Spirit may not have been the one "revealing" this all to you....

but God has already done this through the Bible.

In deed he has, so why would you have things revealed to you that are not in the Bible?

God gave man dominion over the earth but not Satan, so the only way Satan can have authority on earth is through mankind.

True and False-
God gave man domination over the things of the Earth (plants, animals, etc), God gave Satan domination over the Earth. Satan has authority because God gave it to him, but at the same time, yes, it is through tempting mankind, because there is nothing else to tempt....okay I think I kinda messed that point up....I started to confuse myself.....

God is a Spirit and so is Satan and his demons. The Bible refers to demons in most cases as “spirits”
Some demons are stronger that others and all have different functions, ranks or manifestations. Eph 6 v 12.

Agreed

One type of demon can attack you by verbal or physical abuse.

you, as in, not a Christian

When we retaliate the same way then we have possessed the demon.

What????????? Where is the scripture to show this is true?

God's answer has always been to retaliate with love.

This is true, but what does this have to do with what we are talking about? And what makes you think that God wants Christians to retaliate against demons?

God would prefer us to not give them room in our lives in the first place.

The same example was with King Saul and David. King Saul gave heed to the spirit of jealousy which attracted other spirits such as hate and murderous spirits. But David retaliated with love toward King Saul. Even when David was tempted by the devil to kill King Saul he declined and continued to love King Saul. 1 Sam 16 v 14-23, 18 v 10, 19 v 9.

Now, you are starting to take scripture out of context a bit.

They are tempted, not possessed....because as you say, demons attack flesh and mind, and when a demon is possessing someone, they are in direct control over the body and mind, therefore, David would have killed Saul, because that is what Satan wanted.

Ephesians 4 & 5 talks about unclean spirits (demons) that were in some members of the Church and to rebuke them and turn to God's love. Other wise you were putting a foot in the door to allow more demons to inhabit you.
I have no doubt many demons depart when we become Spirit Filled but may be not all as we read in Ephesians 4 & 5 many do not.

No, it doesn't.....

James 4 will tell us the devil is among the members as there were fights and quarrels. The Church was being told to resist the devil (and show God's love) and he will flee from you.
Luke 9 v 55 Jesus told James and Peter that “You do not know what spirit you come from.”
Matt 10 talks about casting out unclean spirits.
Prov 16 v 18 talks about a haughty spirit.
Mic 2 v 11 talks about a spirit of false hood.

You are taking all of this out of context...

My experience is when the demons leave so do many sicknesses.
Eg. A Spirit filled grandmother had severe arthritis. After speaking to her we found that she had unforgiveness to her alcoholic husband. After she went though repentance and forgiveness to her husband the arthritis immediately left. Unforgiveness is demon and will attract many other demonic spirits with it such as hate, stubbornness, disobedience etc.
... Families where there is much physical and verbal abuse will attract demons to them selves and their children and if not put under control will allow stronger and more destructive demons to come.

I don't have the time right now to get to every point in all of the above. Except, unforgiveness, hate, etc are not demons!

Regarding being passed down from generation to generation.
Ex 20 v 5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them (other gods), nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
Here God states the iniquities would be passed down and yes it is conditional that the children hate or do not obey God. I do not doubt that demons visit these iniquities on us and are ready and waiting when we slip up in ignorance of God's word

Ill get back to you on this when I have it all worded correctly. But, I can say that everyones sin affects everyone, not just family members.

and that is why we are told in Eph 5 v 11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
12For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
13Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
14Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;
15And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
16Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.
17And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
18Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;

No, we are told this to not allow room for the Devil to enter into any area of our lives. Its not giving us directions on how to "fight" with Satan and his demons.


Basically you are confusing a few things:

Demons are created beings

Unforgiveness, hate, etc are sins (not demons)

Sins are a response to the temptation of Satan and demons (not demons themselves)

Demons know how people react to other people and situations. Demons are familiar with human patters, I mean, they were around from the beginning. Demons use this knowledge to interfere with our lives and play on our patterns to cause certain situations, etc, that some people may mistake for possession, fortune telling, horoscope, etc.

[TyRockwell]

Blinkster wrote,
Christians are filled with the Holy Spirit- why would the Holy Spirit allow a demon to enter into the same person it is indwelling. Furthermore, why would God allow Satan or a demon to enter into his children at all in the first place?

Leaving aside the difference between the indwelling Holy Spirit, and the "Filled with" condition,
the issue is: You live in your house, but not all the closets are lit with a light all the time. And is it God Who opens doors into your house?

[FredFlanders]

Demons do attack Christians, however they do not inhabit them. Christians are filled with the Holy Spirit- why would the Holy Spirit allow a demon to enter into the same person it is indwelling. Furthermore, why would God allow Satan or a demon to enter into his children at all in the first place?

Jesus lives in your heart, he is not going to allow Satan to live there too.

Also, demons attack the spirit, not the flesh.



There is a difference between being possessed and being attacked by a demon. To be possessed, is for a demon to have direct control over the body and mind-and for people to have none. When we, Christians and non-Christians are attacked, it is demons tempting us.

So again, why would God allow a demon to have direct control over his Child? The very one he gave his only son to die for?



Im not questioning your salvation by any means, but, I will not hesitate to say that the Holy Spirit may not have been the one "revealing" this all to you....



In deed he has, so why would you have things revealed to you that are not in the Bible?




True and False-
God gave man domination over the things of the Earth (plants, animals, etc), God gave Satan domination over the Earth. Satan has authority because God gave it to him, but at the same time, yes, it is through tempting mankind, because there is nothing else to tempt....okay I think I kinda messed that point up....I started to confuse myself.....



Agreed



you, as in, not a Christian



What????????? Where is the scripture to show this is true?



This is true, but what does this have to do with what we are talking about? And what makes you think that God wants Christians to retaliate against demons?

God would prefer us to not give them room in our lives in the first place.



Now, you are starting to take scripture out of context a bit.

They are tempted, not possessed....because as you say, demons attack flesh and mind, and when a demon is possessing someone, they are in direct control over the body and mind, therefore, David would have killed Saul, because that is what Satan wanted.



No, it doesn't.....



You are taking all of this out of context...



I don't have the time right now to get to every point in all of the above. Except, unforgiveness, hate, etc are not demons!



Ill get back to you on this when I have it all worded correctly. But, I can say that everyones sin affects everyone, not just family members.



No, we are told this to not allow room for the Devil to enter into any area of our lives. Its not giving us directions on how to "fight" with Satan and his demons.


Basically you are confusing a few things:

Demons are created beings

Unforgiveness, hate, etc are sins (not demons)

Sins are a response to the temptation of Satan and demons (not demons themselves)

Demons know how people react to other people and situations. Demons are familiar with human patters, I mean, they were around from the beginning. Demons use this knowledge to interfere with our lives and play on our patterns to cause certain situations, etc, that some people may mistake for possession, fortune telling, horoscope, etc.

Binkster,
You need to look into your Bible to get a proper definition to what being possessed by a demon is and to what actually demons are. They can manifest in many different ways including lies in false religion, all types of divinations and other simple manifestations as the unclean spirits which manifest in members of the Church such as in Galatians and Ephesians. All it takes is for an individual to be possessed (allow entrance to your flesh) is by fear of these spirits and/or confess and/or take action and/or worship these spirits. That is the way it happens in the Bible and God gives us insight into this. If you think there is another way you can possessed or there is another definition of demons please tell me.
To say “Spirit Filled” people cannot have demons because Gods Holy Spirit is in them is a delusion. Under that theory you could also say “Spirit Filled” Christians cannot be sick because God’s Holy Spirit is in them, but as you know Christians still get sick.

[Binkster]

Binkster,
You need to look into your Bible to get a proper definition to what being possessed by a demon is and to what actually demons are. They can manifest in many different ways including lies in false religion, all types of divinations and other simple manifestations as the unclean spirits which manifest in members of the Church such as in Galatians and Ephesians. All it takes is for an individual to be possessed (allow entrance to your flesh) is by fear of these spirits and/or confess and/or take action and/or worship these spirits. That is the way it happens in the Bible and God gives us insight into this. If you think there is another way you can possessed or there is another definition of demons please tell me.
To say “Spirit Filled” people cannot have demons because Gods Holy Spirit is in them is a delusion. Under that theory you could also say “Spirit Filled” Christians cannot be sick because God’s Holy Spirit is in them, but as you know Christians still get sick.

I am the one that is delusional? LOL dude, seriously, you are living in some kind of fantasy world. YOU need to read the Bible and YOU need to understand the difference between a demon and a sin!

I am well aware of the way demons can have open doors into peoples lives and the different ways they can manifest...that is not the topic at hand. Christians CANNOT be possessed PERIOD!

[Binkster]

Blinkster wrote,
Christians are filled with the Holy Spirit- why would the Holy Spirit allow a demon to enter into the same person it is indwelling. Furthermore, why would God allow Satan or a demon to enter into his children at all in the first place?

Leaving aside the difference between the indwelling Holy Spirit, and the "Filled with" condition,
the issue is: You live in your house, but not all the closets are lit with a light all the time. And is it God Who opens doors into your house?

Yes, leaving that aside, because I don't agree with you on that topic. Just like I don't agree with you on your unbiblical order of speaking in tongues. If you are possessed, you may claim to be a Christian, but the truth is, you never were.

[TyRockwell]

Yes, leaving that aside, because I don't agree with you on that topic. Just like I don't agree with you on your unbiblical order of speaking in tongues. If you are possessed, you may claim to be a Christian, but the truth is, you never were.

Shay nag ah le doe may amadah.

You are not the One to make that judgment. Some Christians have needed deliverance from what was oppressing them. There are many rooms in a house, and some dark closets that need to be cleaned out. Some only go out by prayer and fasting. Not everyone is praying and fasting when they are saved.

[Eeset-Shadowgrl]

I am well aware of the way demons can have open doors into peoples lives and the different ways they can manifest...that is not the topic at hand. Christians CANNOT be possessed PERIOD!

I do not disagree with you on this per say but what is your scriptural basis for saying it? Is it not true that Christians sin? By the same token what if a Christian drinks too much and loses control in a manner of speaking. Does that not weaken them? Can one or more demons temporarily take advantage of a weakened Christian? Are you defining possession to be a continuing habitation or can it be temporary? I am really interested in your interpretation of various passages. Would you say 2 Timothy 26 speaks to your points? Actually 2 Timothy 24-25 is an excellent admonition in this type of discussion don't you think? 26 after all begins with the conjunctive "and".

[Binkster]

I do not disagree with you on this per say but what is your scriptural basis for saying it? Is it not true that Christians sin? By the same token what if a Christian drinks too much and loses control in a manner of speaking. Does that not weaken them? Can one or more demons temporarily take advantage of a weakened Christian? Are you defining possession to be a continuing habitation or can it be temporary? I am really interested in your interpretation of various passages. Would you say 2 Timothy 26 speaks to your points? Actually 2 Timothy 24-25 is an excellent admonition in this type of discussion don't you think? 26 after all begins with the conjunctive "and".

My scriptural basis for saying which part?

Yes, Christians do sin-everyone does.

Take advantage how? ...Can they take over their body and mind and cause them to be possessed? Certainly not!

As far as continuing habitation or temporary....both.

I have never read 2 Timothy 24, 25, and 26... where did you find them?

[Binkster]

Shay nag ah le doe may amadah.

You are not the One to make that judgment. Some Christians have needed deliverance from what was oppressing them. There are many rooms in a house, and some dark closets that need to be cleaned out. Some only go out by prayer and fasting. Not everyone is praying and fasting when they are saved.

You're right, God is, and his word, the Bible, does.

Christians don't need deliverance, Christians need to step up and take responsibility for not self sacrificing and quit blaming their decisions and sins on Satan....what is oppressing them is the consequences of their sins, not demons.

[FredFlanders]

I am the one that is delusional? LOL dude, seriously, you are living in some kind of fantasy world. YOU need to read the Bible and YOU need to understand the difference between a demon and a sin!

I am well aware of the way demons can have open doors into peoples lives and the different ways they can manifest...that is not the topic at hand. Christians CANNOT be possessed PERIOD!

Binkster,
You need to understand what being “possessed” means in Biblical terms. The meaning is to take possession. We take possession by manifesting demons such as hatred, jealousy, anger etc. in our actions. We can see these manifestations in people by what they confess and in their body language. Other demons can manifest in lies and are very subtle in the way they go about this. They do it in false religion even through Christian believers. Believers do not tell these lies deliberately that is why we are told to have our loins gird with truth and not use the Word of God out of context. We can all fall into this trap myself included. If we are using the Word of God out of context we are manifesting lying spirits.
One of these lying spirits have Christian believers believing they are filled with the Holy Spirit and are selling them short of the full Gospel message. Gods Word does not contradict it self. It is very easy to see these lying religious spirits.
This is not to point fingers at anyone because I was once there myself but to lead believers into the full Gospel message.