Fundamentalist!

[Scrawly]

I typically try and view one sermon every Sunday. I watched a sermon by Paul Washer. Mr. Washer would be considered a full-fledged fundamentalist and/or fanatic in the eyes of the world, and undoubtedly many in the church as well. I am requesting that you please view the sermon in it's entirety. After having done so, I would like to know what you find so objectionable when it comes to the teaching of fundamentalists. What un-Christian views are they presenting? What's the real problem with fundamentalists like Washer?

PS: If you don't find anything overly objectionable with Washer's preaching, then clearly this thread isn't directed towards you. Feel free to comment, however. Although, as stated, this thread is primarily intended for those who shudder at fundamentalists like Paul Washer and their worldview.

[Faber]

What I saw didn't match the image on your post, but no doubt I saw the correct video.

I thought the message was great.

He mentioned listening to NPT on the radio because of the low quality of programming on the Christian stations. Maybe so. Maybe I'm fortunate in this area. There are two good Christians stations that for the most part - there are some serious exceptions - stick to good sound Bible expositors and evangelists.

I hesitate at the 42-43 minute mark when he speaks out against those who oppose legalism. Maybe I'm getting it wrong; I didn't take notes. His defense of the law is using examples of a moral law which neither I nor anybody else would be opposed to.

My understanding of opposing legalism is in two forms. As with Paul's letters to Galatians and Colossians, I would oppose the Pharasaic legalism of the Sabbath, dietary codes, mandatory observance of certain holidays. I would also oppose the Fundamentalist - according to my definition - rules relating to movies, alcohol, boycotting certain industries, smoking, various other questionable practices. The church where I was saved later got a new pastor, who gradually led the church in that direction, and I and many others left it.

But not being at all familiar with Paul Washer, I can't pass judgment on him. All I can say is, the message was great.

[seanD]

First I have to ask, what's the definition of a fundamentalist or what set of criteria makes a fundamentalist from not a fundamentalist?

[Bisto]

I haven't watched this video, but I've heard a handful of sermons by him (some in English, some in Spanish -- he speaks both ). I liked them. No doubt there were things here and there I disagreed with a bit AFAIR, but overall, I like him.

[Scrawly]

First I have to ask, what's the definition of a fundamentalist or what set of criteria makes a fundamentalist from not a fundamentalist?

I think a fundamentalist can loosely be defined as an individual that is anti-modern in varying forms. Their worldview is stuck in the first century type-thing. In fundamentalist groups, rarely is mental illness thought of to be an explanation to some aberrant behavior, for example. There is no desire to methodologically probe that possibility to perhaps find a natural cause, and the desire to seek help in that fashion would most likely be dissuaded. Naturally, there is often a highly spiritualized view of reality amongst fundamentalist adherents which leads to over emphasizing realities like sin and so narrowly focusing on that particular category at the expense of other more natural realities thereby leading to cult-like or ancient categories of thinking and viewing the world - which leads to isolation from the evils but also the good in the world.

In short, the fundamentalist is out of balance. Yet, fundamentalist's like Washer and so forth are the one's that seem to most accurately emulate the Apostle's and our Messiah and live out their commands and "hard sayings".

[KingsGambit]

Yet, fundamentalist's like Washer and so forth are the one's that seem to most accurately emulate the Apostle's and our Messiah and live out their commands and "hard sayings".

Are they? I think there are plenty of good examples of people outside of that subset of Christianity demonstrating the radical love Jesus taught of.

[Obsidian]

I think that Paul Washer's 'gospel' is so muddled and works-oriented that I am unsure whether he is even on his way to heaven. He is a terrible teacher. Haven't yet made it through this whole video, though. (Not sure I'm gonna make it through the whole thing, because I can't stand the guy's voice/tone.)

[KingsGambit]

Washer provides a useful counterbalance to the modern Protestant under-emphasis on works, but he seems to take it rather far.

[seanD]

I think a fundamentalist can loosely be defined as an individual that is anti-modern in varying forms. Their worldview is stuck in the first century type-thing. In fundamentalist groups, rarely is mental illness thought of to be an explanation to some aberrant behavior, for example. There is no desire to methodologically probe that possibility to perhaps find a natural cause, and the desire to seek help in that fashion would most likely be dissuaded. Naturally, there is often a highly spiritualized view of reality amongst fundamentalist adherents which leads to over emphasizing realities like sin and so narrowly focusing on that particular category at the expense of other more natural realities thereby leading to cult-like or ancient categories of thinking and viewing the world - which leads to isolation from the evils but also the good in the world.

In short, the fundamentalist is out of balance. Yet, fundamentalist's like Washer and so forth are the one's that seem to most accurately emulate the Apostle's and our Messiah and live out their commands and "hard sayings".

Man, is that a broad definition lol. I would think that covers just about every orthodox Christian on this board to some degree, perhaps with the exception of a couple of hardcore liberal Christians. I guess I can't give my opinion about the OP because I still don't know what a fundamentalist is... or, more specifically, what ISN'T a fundamentalist because I might be passing judgement on someone as a fundamentalist when I meet the criteria myself.

[Scrawly]

Are they? I think there are plenty of good examples of people outside of that subset of Christianity demonstrating the radical love Jesus taught of.

Combined with unashamed preaching of the gospel? Please provide some names.

[KingsGambit]

Combined with unashamed preaching of the gospel? Please provide some names.

Craig Keener and Preston Sprinkle come to immediate mind.

[Scrawly]

Man, is that a broad definition lol. I would think that covers just about every orthodox Christian on this board to some degree, perhaps with the exception of a couple of hardcore liberal Christians. I guess I can't give my opinion about the OP because I still don't know what a fundamentalist is... or, more specifically, what ISN'T a fundamentalist because I might be passing judgement on someone as a fundamentalist when I meet the criteria myself.

I think the issue may boil down to the fact that Christian's living in modern, sophisticated societies have become too civilized for the bible. A person like Paul Washer enters the scene and takes an honest, common sense approach to the bible and the teachings therein and literally does what it says, and advocates for others to do the same, if they are truly Christian. Modern-minded Christian's scoff at such an approach as medieval, primitive naivete and dismiss people like Paul Washer as "fundamentalists" - yet what ever that term may mean, Jesus and the Apostle's were infinitely more "fundamentalist" than people like Washer. When we come to the hard sayings in the bible, much exertion is expended to prove that Jesus and the Apostle's didn't actually mean what they said. Paul Washer is essentially saying to these people: "Get real". "Stop obfuscating clear commands". "Just admit that the bible says a lot of weird things that you want no part of - you prefer comfort and ease over suffering for the kingdom". "The way you live demonstrates you don't actually believe any of this". "It's just a psychological crutch for you, isn't it?". Stuff like that.

[Obsidian]

Okay, I forced myself to listen to the whole thing. I still can't stand him. I'm not sure what you see in him. I certainly don't see why you think he is teaching any more useful morals than the average preacher. And his voice is like a much whinier, more feminine, and more condescending version of John Malkovich:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEtbKIrJomE

His teaching that "everybody bears fruit" is dead wrong, as the Bible lists three different categories of people who bear no fruit. Luke 8:4-15. And his exposition of Matthew 25 is flawed as well. Two thumbs down.

[Scrawly]

Okay, I forced myself to listen to the whole thing. I still can't stand him. I'm not sure what you see in him. I certainly don't see why you think he is teaching any more useful morals than the average preacher. And his voice is like a much whinier, more feminine, and more condescending version of John Malkovich:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEtbKIrJomE

His teaching that "everybody bears fruit" is dead wrong, as the Bible lists three different categories of people who bear no fruit. Luke 8:4-15. And his exposition of Matthew 25 is flawed as well. Two thumbs down.

I don't think Washer is preaching mere morals. He is preaching and advocating for clear gospel presentation and the implications that ought to follow, for those who truly believe. I think Washer has many good things to say. He's probably quite close in worldview/perspective, and behavior, to primitive Christian's - whether this is a good or bad thing in our modern societies is up for debate.

[Obsidian]

I feel like he said very little of substance in that whole video that you made me watch -- other than wrongly interpreting the parables about 'fruit,' sheep, and goats. What did he say that was "fundamentalist" or otherwise useful?