Knowing for sure one is going to heaven

[Obsidian]

1. Luke 16 does not state that Abraham was in Hades. It says he was in Paradise.

2. I don't think Hebrews 11 is saying that Christians have received anything that Abraham did not. If that were so, then Christians would not need faith. And that would negate the point of the chapter.

3. I agree that Abraham was not dead.

[footwasher]

1. Luke 16 does not state that Abraham was in Hades. It says he was in Paradise.

2. I don't think Hebrews 11 is saying that Christians have received anything that Abraham did not. If that were so, then Christians would not need faith. And that would negate the point of the chapter.

3. I agree that Abraham was not dead.

What do believers have that make them greater than John the Baptist , who was the greatest of all who were born of woman , before Christ was sent?

[Obsidian]

Appealing to unclear verses will not prove your position, Footwasher.

[37818]

1. Luke 16 does not state that Abraham was in Hades. It says he was in Paradise.

It does not say Abraham was in Paradise. That it was Paradise is interpreted being the upper compartment of Hades is based on Christ dying going to Paradise that day [from on the cross], and His soul not being left in Hades.

". . . To day shalt thou be with me in paradise." -- Luke 23:43.


". . . that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; And in hell [Hades] he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham . . . ." -- Luke 16:22, 23.

". . . For a fire is kindled in mine anger, and shall burn unto the lowest hell [Sheol], . . ." -- Deuteronomy 32:22.

". . . Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. . . ." -- Luke 16:29.

". . . thou wilt not leave my soul in hell [Sheol, Hades], neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. . . . He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption." -- Acts 2:27, 31.

[footwasher]

Appealing to unclear verses will not prove your position, Footwasher.

[Obsidian]

@37818

I don't think Christ was in paradise when he died. The comma could arguably arise after "today." Otherwise, it is possible that Jesus is referencing that the thief will be with him in the sense of being with God in paradise.

[37818]

@37818

I don't think Christ was in paradise when he died. The comma could arguably arise after "today." Otherwise, it is possible that Jesus is referencing that the thief will be with him in the sense of being with God in paradise.

+

Which translations or translators does this? Thanks.


. . . αμην λεγω σοι σημερον μετ εμου εση εν τω παραδεισω

αμην - From the Hebrew, Amen - most certainly
λεγω - say
σοι - to you
σημερον - this day
μετ - with
εμου - me
εση - you shall be
εν - in
τω - the [not translated]
παραδεισω - paradise [transliterated]