Best Christian apologist today?

[Adrift]

No kidding.

I've seen some dysfunctional websites and crazy people on the internet, but I've never come across so many people that are so willing to dish out bile, and yet fancy themselves as morally superior to any and all that oppose them.

Of course, what's even more humorous is that while Adrift concerns himself with the opinions of Gary, Starlight, and Shunny, he's own flock does more damage in how they represent his religion than any skeptic could. It's always fun to show Christians I known in real life the posts of lilpixieofterror and CowPoke and hear their gasps when they realize they are moderators.

This coming from a guy who routinely harbors intense resentment at the smallest things, cusses up a storm, announces he hates everyone, and then rage quits for months, only to come around again cause he can't get enough.

[Sea of red]

This coming from a guy who routinely harbors intense resentment at the smallest things, cusses up a storm, announces he hates everyone, and then rage quits for months, only to come around again cause he can't get enough.

How about you give this 'holier than thou' stuff a rest? Your little OCD thing with Shunny, Tass, and Starlight sure seems like someone that can't let go to me. It's not like anyone of them really bother you - you seem to seek them out. I think they enjoy that while you've said you don't take them seriously for years, you've spent a significant amount of time debating these guys. If they're embarrassing themselves, what does that make you if you're dumb enough to keep debating them? Maybe you should take some of your own advise and either stop talking to them, or admit you do take them seriously.

As for the • Edited by a Moderator • that seek me out and can't take no for an answer, you're right in a way. You can bet that if you started following me from thread to thread calling me retard, fundy, drooling idiot, dumbass, etc, that you'd eventually get some nasty responses right back at you. Don't act like a hateful bully if you don't want people to think you're one, call you one, or treat you like one.

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[Tassman]

How about you give this 'holier than thou' stuff a rest? Your little OCD thing with Shunny, Tass, and Starlight sure seems like someone that can't let go to me. It's not like anyone of them really bother you - you seem to seek them out. I think they enjoy that while you've said you don't them seriously for years, you've spent a significant amount of time debating these guys. If they're embarrassing themselves, what does that make you if you're dumb enough to keep debating them? Maybe you should take some of your own advise and either stop talking to them, or admit you do take them seriously.

Spot on. And the only response they seem able to muster is personal denigration.

As for the • Edited by a Moderator • seek me out and can't take no for an answer, you're right in a way. You can bet that if you started following me from thread to thread calling me retard, fundy, drooling idiot, dumbass, etc, that you'd eventually get some nasty responses right back at you. Don't act like a hateful bully if you don't want people to think you're one, call you one, or treat you like one.

Don't worry James, you know your winning when you start copping gratuitous abuse; they learnt this trick from the odious con-man JP Holding.

[Adrift]

How about you give this 'holier than thou' stuff a rest? Your little OCD thing with Shunny, Tass, and Starlight sure seems like someone that can't let go to me. It's not like anyone of them really bother you - you seem to seek them out. I think they enjoy that while you've said you don't take them seriously for years, you've spent a significant amount of time debating these guys. If they're embarrassing themselves, what does that make you if you're dumb enough to keep debating them? Maybe you should take some of your own advise and either stop talking to them, or admit you do take them seriously.

I mean, I don't really interact with Starlight as much as you seem to think I do. I think it's weird that you think I do, but OK. And no, I don't spend a significant amount of time debating any of these guys. In fact, I spend very little time debating them at all. You'd know that if you've stuck around for any amount of time before flouncing.

As for the • Edited by a Moderator • that seek me out and can't take no for an answer, you're right in a way. You can bet that if you started following me from thread to thread calling me retard, fundy, drooling idiot, dumbass, etc, that you'd eventually get some nasty responses right back at you. Don't act like a hateful bully if you don't want people to think you're one, call you one, or treat you like one.

Oops. Looks like you couldn't go a whole post without cussing again. You are so unhinged man. You need to chill. Maybe find a forum where you don't lose your mind every other post. Course, I'm not sure you have the self control to do that.

[Sea of red]

I mean, I don't really interact with Starlight as much as you seem to think I do. I think it's weird that you think I do, but OK. And no, I don't spend a significant amount of time debating any of these guys. In fact, I spend very little time debating them at all. You'd know that if you've stuck around for any amount of time before flouncing.

Riiight.

It's funny to watch you lecture people on this stuff when your history tells a different story.

Oops. Looks like you couldn't go a whole post without cussing again.

Actually, it wasn't a curse word. This is about the fourth moderation now for allegedly using something that was profane, that actually wasn't at all. Just yesterday I was moderated for a passing reference to an Iron Maiden song that supposedly meant I was calling lilpixieofterror a prostitute. It really is just insane.

You are so unhinged man. You need to chill. Maybe find a forum where you don't lose your mind every other post. Course, I'm not sure you have the self control to do that.

You don't need to quit your day job because you'd make one bad psychologist.

[Adrift]

Riiight.

It's funny to watch you lecture people on this stuff when your history tells a different story.

Again, this coming from a guy whose record has been spotless? Dude, you are the king of melodrama.

Actually, it wasn't a curse word. This is about the fourth moderation now for allegedly using something that was profane, that actually wasn't at all. Just yesterday I was moderated for a passing reference to an Iron Maiden song that supposedly meant I was calling lilpixieofterror a prostitute. It really is just insane.

Weird. Most folks, even hardcore atheists, have gone years without moderation. Maybe, you know, maybe it's not everyone else. Maybe it really is you...?

You don't need to quit your day job because you'd make one bad psychologist.

It doesn't take a psychologist to see that you've got major anger issues. Maybe take some more time off the forum and really evaluate your mental state.

[One Bad Pig]

How about you give this 'holier than thou' stuff a rest? Your little OCD thing with Shunny, Tass, and Starlight sure seems like someone that can't let go to me. It's not like anyone of them really bother you - you seem to seek them out. I think they enjoy that while you've said you don't take them seriously for years, you've spent a significant amount of time debating these guys. If they're embarrassing themselves, what does that make you if you're dumb enough to keep debating them? Maybe you should take some of your own advise and either stop talking to them, or admit you do take them seriously.

No offense, but this reads exactly like your interactions with lilpixie.

[psstein]

Can we not turn this thread into an excrement-flinging show?

For what it's worth, the majority of apologists are awful. I actually can't stand 98%+ of them.

However, that being said:

N.T. Wright is good, though I disagree with him in some areas.
Gary Habermas is good, as is Mike Licona, whom I'd term his protege (not sure if Mike likes that).
WLC I think is above average, great debater; he sometimes won on rhetoric, not arguments.

I wouldn't really count Ed Feser as an apologist, but his work on Aquinas is outstanding.

David Wood I've liked from what I've seen.

J.P. Holding's work I generally like, though there are some areas that I firmly disagree with him. He dates the gospels too early. Same thing with Nick.

[Adrift]

Can we not turn this thread into an excrement-flinging show?

For what it's worth, the majority of apologists are awful. I actually can't stand 98%+ of them.

However, that being said:

N.T. Wright is good, though I disagree with him in some areas.
Gary Habermas is good, as is Mike Licona, whom I'd term his protege (not sure if Mike likes that).
WLC I think is above average, great debater; he sometimes won on rhetoric, not arguments.

I wouldn't really count Ed Feser as an apologist, but his work on Aquinas is outstanding.

David Wood I've liked from what I've seen.

J.P. Holding's work I generally like, though there are some areas that I firmly disagree with him. He dates the gospels too early. Same thing with Nick.

Huh, I'd actually reverse a couple on your list. I don't think of N.T. Wright as an apologist at all. He's an historian, a theologian, and an occasional populist, but not really an apologist (with maybe an exception when it comes to the environment). On the other hand, I totally consider Ed Feser an apologist. He's literally a faculty member of the Catholic Apologetics Academy. Also, I don't find Holding's work particularly good.

I guess for my favorites I would second John Lennox, WLC (who is, in my opinion, is the greatest apologist of our age), Ravi Zacharias, CS Lewis, Ed Feser, and Richard Swinburne.

I have a question. Why are there so few Catholic and Eastern Orthodox apologists compared to Protestants and Anglicans? The Catholic church in particular has a rich history of Apologetics. Heck, they invented them, but there are so few mainstream Catholic apologists out there (at least, that I know of). It seems to me the only thing that explains it is that Protestants seem to spend more time in evangelism, and Apologetics is sort of an offshoot of evangelism, but I think there has to be more to it than that.

[One Bad Pig]

Huh, I'd actually reverse a couple on your list. I don't think of N.T. Wright as an apologist at all. He's an historian, a theologian, and an occasional populist, but not really an apologist (with maybe an exception when it comes to the environment). On the other hand, I totally consider Ed Feser an apologist. He's literally a faculty member of the Catholic Apologetics Academy. Also, I don't find Holding's work particularly good.

I guess for my favorites I would second John Lennox, WLC (who is, in my opinion, is the greatest apologist of our age), Ravi Zacharias, CS Lewis, Ed Feser, and Richard Swinburne.

I have a question. Why are there so few Catholic and Eastern Orthodox apologists compared to Protestants and Anglicans? The Catholic church in particular has a rich history of Apologetics. Heck, they invented them, but there are so few mainstream Catholic apologists out there (at least, that I know of). It seems to me the only thing that explains it is that Protestants seem to spend more time in evangelism, and Apologetics is sort of an offshoot of evangelism, but I think there has to be more to it than that.

For EO, IMO part of it has to do with numbers (among the English-speaking world). Also, in the English-speaking world, Orthodoxy tends to be seen as a cultural thing; the various jurisdictions are only starting to work together. Lastly, the Orthodox approach tends less toward argument and more toward "Come and see." I know of Richard Swinburne and David Bentley Hart, and that's about it. Metropolitan Kallistos Ware might be better considered an evangelist.

[rogue06]

For EO, IMO part of it has to do with numbers (among the English-speaking world). Also, in the English-speaking world, Orthodoxy tends to be seen as a cultural thing; the various jurisdictions are only starting to work together. Lastly, the Orthodox approach tends less toward argument and more toward "Come and see." I know of Richard Swinburne and David Bentley Hart, and that's about it. Metropolitan Kallistos Ware might be better considered an evangelist.

Have you ever read the late Bishop of Buenos Aires and South America, Alexander Mileant's, The Origins of the World and Mankind: An Attempt to Reconcile the Biblical Account with Scientific Discoveries? I'm not sure that the English version I linked to is the complete text of the work but at least for me (considering my area of interests) was an interesting read.

[seer]

I have a question. Why are there so few Catholic and Eastern Orthodox apologists compared to Protestants and Anglicans?

Because they make more converts by making babies.

[One Bad Pig]

Have you ever read the late Bishop of Buenos Aires and South America, Alexander Mileant's, The Origins of the World and Mankind: An Attempt to Reconcile the Biblical Account with Scientific Discoveries? I'm not sure that the English version I linked to is the complete text of the work but at least for me (considering my area of interests) was an interesting read.

No, I've never seen it before. Thanks!

[37818]

J.P. Moreland anyone?

For what makes J.P. Moreland stand out for you?

[37818]

Here is a link of a list of [more than] 20 Christian apologists: http://crossexamined.org/top-20-apologists/