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Israeli archeologists find taboo toilet at ancient Jewish shrine

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
    That is a lie Frank. Your claim was that they didn't have a distinct culture until ~600BC
    Not true, this has been covered in many threads. It is true that there is no distinct Hebrew language before ~700 - 600 BCE. It has always been that there is no sudden date that Hebrews became a distinct culture and kingdom.
    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

    go with the flow the river knows . . .

    Frank

    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Spartacus View Post
      What was that Cerebrum said about moving goalposts?
      I consider these approximate dates like the historians propose, please notice what"~" means.
      Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
      Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
      But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

      go with the flow the river knows . . .

      Frank

      I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
        Not true, this has been covered in many threads. It is true that there is no distinct Hebrew language before ~700 - 600 BCE. It has always been that there is no sudden date that Hebrews became a distinct culture and kingdom.
        You posted a thread about a distinct people, under the rule of a distinct King, who defiled another distinct people's cultic worship center well before ~600 BC. QED
        That's what
        - She

        Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
        - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

        I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
        - Stephen R. Donaldson

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
          I consider these approximate dates like the historians propose, please notice what"~" means.
          Why exactly did you change your approximation from ~800 to ~900? Did you read another historian between yesterday afternoon and this morning that convinced you about this even broader window of time?
          Don't call it a comeback. It's a riposte.

          Comment


          • #20
            More importantly, why did he change his estimate from from ~600 BCE to ~900--600 BCE?
            βλέπομεν γὰρ ἄρτι δι᾿ ἐσόπτρου ἐν αἰνίγματι, τότε δὲ πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον·
            ἄρτι γινώσκω ἐκ μέρους, τότε δὲ ἐπιγνώσομαι καθὼς καὶ ἐπεγνώσθην.

            אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by robrecht View Post
              More importantly, why did he change his estimate from from ~600 BCE to ~900--600 BCE?
              Do you have a link? Unless I see the post where he said 600, I can't hold him accountable for it.
              Don't call it a comeback. It's a riposte.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Spartacus View Post
                Do you have a link? Unless I see the post where he said 600, I can't hold him accountable for it.
                Bill posted the link earlier this thread.
                βλέπομεν γὰρ ἄρτι δι᾿ ἐσόπτρου ἐν αἰνίγματι, τότε δὲ πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον·
                ἄρτι γινώσκω ἐκ μέρους, τότε δὲ ἐπιγνώσομαι καθὼς καὶ ἐπεγνώσθην.

                אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by robrecht View Post
                  Bill posted the link earlier this thread.
                  Ah, thanks. Found it

                  But yeah, I'm almost as eager for his explanation as to why his arguments have changed as I am to hear why Trump changed his mind about Obama's birth certificate.
                  Don't call it a comeback. It's a riposte.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Spartacus View Post
                    Why exactly did you change your approximation from ~800 to ~900? Did you read another historian between yesterday afternoon and this morning that convinced you about this even broader window of time?
                    "~" indicates approximate dates of the transition period not exact dates. Your splitting frog hairs. This period ~900 - 800 BCE is when Israel is described as being described as a defeated "people," and a Paleo Hebrew/Canaanite language.

                    This period up to a ~800 - 600 BCE is when the first distinctive written language that may be identified as Hebrew. After ~800 - 600 BCE the Hebrews have a clear culture, language and identity, and the result is the Hebrew scripture.

                    Originally posted by robrecht
                    More importantly, why did he change his estimate from from ~600 BCE to ~900--600 BCE?
                    Not a change.
                    Last edited by shunyadragon; 10-01-2016, 10:28 PM.
                    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                    go with the flow the river knows . . .

                    Frank

                    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                      "~" indicates transition period not exact dates.
                      A 100 year addition to the timeline is significant.

                      Your splitting frog hairs.
                      This time the point for prediction goes to adrift.

                      This period ~900-800 BCE is when Israel is described as being described as a defeated "people."

                      This period up to a ~800 - 600 CE is when the first written language that may be identified as Hebrew.
                      A defeated people but not a distinct culture? I think you should provide some more specific definitions here.
                      Don't call it a comeback. It's a riposte.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        [QUOTE=Spartacus;373215]A 100 year addition to the timeline is significant.[quote]

                        No, not in estimating when there is scanty and limited evidence. There are written records as with the Ugarites, Canaanites and Babylonians. This is a period of transition from pastoral Canaanite tribes to Hebrew kingdom or nation

                        A defeated people but not a distinct culture? I think you should provide some more specific definitions here.
                        Evidence shows they were a Canaanite Pastoral tribe or tribes mostly in the Hills of Judea that practiced Ugarite/Canaanite polytheism.
                        Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                        Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                        But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                        go with the flow the river knows . . .

                        Frank

                        I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                          "~" indicates approximate dates of the transition period not exact dates. Your splitting frog hairs. This period ~900 - 800 BCE is when Israel is described as being described as a defeated "people," and a Paleo Hebrew/Canaanite language.

                          This period up to a ~800 - 600 BCE is when the first distinctive written language that may be identified as Hebrew. After ~800 - 600 BCE the Hebrews have a clear culture, language and identity, and the result is the Hebrew scripture.



                          Not a change.
                          This round awarded to Adrift
                          Originally posted by Adrift View Post
                          My favorites are "splitting frog hairs", and "the sky is Carolina blue on a clear 4th of July at noon."



                          ETA: I see Spart already awarded it

                          I'm always still in trouble again

                          "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                          "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                          "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                            This round awarded to Adrift



                            ETA: I see Spart already awarded it
                            More favorites for the cheer leaders in the peanut gallery with no constructive responses. Your cheer leader outfits are a little tight.

                            Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                            Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                            But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                            go with the flow the river knows . . .

                            Frank

                            I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                              More favorites for the cheer leaders in the peanut gallery with no constructive responses. Your cheer leader outfits are a little tight.

                              You're just jealous that I still have the legs to pull it off

                              I'm always still in trouble again

                              "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                              "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                              "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                                Not a change.
                                You really do not see the difference in these two statements of yours?

                                A "... There is no evidence that the Hebrews were a distinct culture and society prior to ~600 BCE. ..."

                                B "... the Hebrew tribes [did] not have a distinctive culture and language ]was[ prior to the period ~900 - 600 BCE.. ..."

                                Aside from the obvious difference of three centuries between "~600 BCE" and "~900--600 BCE," do we really need to repeat your past failure to understand some of the basics of the Canaanite and Hebrew alphabet, scripts, and languages, none of which you even understand but nonetheless ignorantly pontificate upon?
                                βλέπομεν γὰρ ἄρτι δι᾿ ἐσόπτρου ἐν αἰνίγματι, τότε δὲ πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον·
                                ἄρτι γινώσκω ἐκ μέρους, τότε δὲ ἐπιγνώσομαι καθὼς καὶ ἐπεγνώσθην.

                                אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃

                                Comment

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